[beaconstudios]

If each part of the body has its own specialised discipline, then holistic (as in "of the whole" not "based on rubbish") medicine is the exception not the norm. Example: surgery to fix sports or occupational injuries will not correct the movement patterns or muscle imbalances that caused it, and thus it is likely to recur.

[Schroedingersat]

I don't get it. Like how are you a knee doctor if you're not aware of what knees do or how they should work in the overall system.

On a system as incredibly simple as, say, an old carbureted motorcycle you don't just look at the spark plugs if there is poor ignition. You look at the carb, air filter, rings, valves, top dead center sensor, timing chains, the cdi/tdi, the coils, and the battery (although probably not in that order).

If the problem is the battery no sensible home mechanic (and no ethical professional mechanic) stops there, you check the voltage regulator and the stator or you're going to find yourself replacing a lot of $100 batteries for want of a $30 IC or a piece of $2 copper wire with a break in the insulation.

The exact same process applies in debugging or designing a physics experiment or making a pcb or repairing a house or therapy, or...just life. Like, you're never going to keep your room clean if your wardrobe is too small to hold all your clothes....

I can't even begin to comprehend a mindset which claims to be part of STEM (or even as professional as a tradesman) in which this concept is foreign or novel.

[beaconstudios]

A knee doctor will be aware of what knees do and how they support your musculoskeletal system. The problem is institutional: if you go in with a knee injury, you'll be triaged and sent to the knee clinic for scans and assessment for a break, sprain, etc. If that problem is found, it will be treated. But it may be that your knee pain was actually caused by bad posture (it's pretty shocking the number and variety of injuries you can sustain from bad posture) and neither triage nor the knee clinic are assessing your posture. They probably could send you to somebody to do so, but the institutional will is not there because that's not how the medical system is designed.

A whole systems health model would involve essentially a debugging process for injuries and maladies in order to find root causes and treat them. It would require a totally different (transdisciplinary) approach to health though, and institutions don't really change.

[Schroedingersat]

There really are no adults in charge of anything anywhere, are there?

[beaconstudios]

as the saying goes, the lunatics are running the asylum.

In reality it's all systemic pressures everywhere and nobody, not even institutional administrators, likely have much in the way of free choice over anything that matters.

[Schroedingersat]

The rationalist celebrities could look more at dynamical systems, but then they'd have to admit that systematic effects exist and that daddy Thiel et al are using them to f* everyone over forever in order to pad their already bloated wallets.

[beaconstudios]

True, being a libertarian does disincentivise looking at systems and systemic effects because the biggest system we live in is capitalism and the systemic analyses that have already been done on it don't paint the prettiest picture.

[Schroedingersat]

Moloch will eat us all.

[beaconstudios]

indeed he will, unless we learn how to manipulate him. This is why I'm confused as to why rationalists seem to have done basically no research into complexity theory (systems/cybernetics). Scott Alexander's done the Moloch pieces, and this one article on dynamical systems [1] but aside from that the closest they get is machine learning, which is a descendant.

[1] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ontology-of-psychiatri...