[hirvi74]

Any sources for your claims, I've read the opposite?

> Many double blind studies over the past 40 years have uniformly agreed that stimulants such as methylphenidate, dextro-amphetamine, as well as other substances, are very effective in the treatment of 70%–80% of children and adults with ADHD. One of the myths of ADHD is that ADHD children show a paradoxical effect of being calmed by stimulants, while “normal” individuals are stimulated by them. However, studies have shown that the activity levels are decreased and attention levels are increased by stimulants in individuals with and without ADHD. The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/

I also have ADHD, and I feel like the medication benefits are vastly overstated. To use an analogy, I was lead to believe that the medication is as effective as opioids for severe pain, but my experiences have been about as effective as Ibuprofen for severe pain. I've tried many different formulations, brands, drug classes -- many of which multiple times at multiple dosages, and I don't feel "magical" yet.

I still take some meds because they're better than nothing, but I am starting to wonder if people are just being overly hyperbolic, and I had too great of expectations.

[romwell]

Medication doesn't have the same effect for everyone. I was lucky in the way it worked for me, perhaps.

The point is, just experiencing this month of calm and ability to do things helped me overcome a lifetime of learned helplessness.

I am more effective now without Adderall than I was before I've had it, simply because I can catch myself getting into the brain fog and using e.g. the help of my partner to break out of it.

Speaking of Ibuprofen, it feels like magic to me too. I've had 100+ degree fever from COVID booster, my whole body was aching, I felt cold, but putting my socks on (which I had in my hands felt like an immense chore). Ibuprofen cleared that within an hour.

Was it "severe" pain? Let's say, I've had worse. But Ibuprofen took me from 100% non-functioning to mostly-functioning. Magic.

In any case, I feel like what you wrote does not contradict what I said.

Let's use glasses as an analogy. Arguably, prescription glasses can be used by people with good vision either to resolve finer print, or to resolve text much further away. The laws of optics work the same for them.

However, we would say that the effect of wearing glasses is drastically different for people who need a strong prescription vs. people who do not.

As they say, size (of the effect) matters.

>The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not.

It's like saying that giving food to someone who's starving is the same as to someone who's eating well. The effect is the same, the response is different.

Those who don't live in constant brain fog don't really get to feel how Adderall helps with that.

Anyway, my personal experience with Adderall is written up here:

https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication

I'll be glad to look to sources to back up my claims (or stand corrected and learn); but can you help me out and say what it is that you want references for? I struggled to understand where we're disagreeing, though we'd perhaps use different words to talk about the same thing.

[hirvi74]

> Speaking of Ibuprofen, it feels like magic to me too. I've had 100+ degree fever from COVID booster, my whole body was aching, I felt cold, but putting my socks on (which I had in my hands felt like an immense chore). Ibuprofen cleared that within an hour.

Damn, I should have tried that. I got laid out after shot #2 and #3. I just ended suffering through it for about 24 hours both days after.

I like your analogy and it does convey a good point.

Perhaps, I can word it my initial point like this. It's suspected (or perhaps merely just a product of combined statistics) that 10% to 20% of people who suffer from ADHD do not benefit from any of the mediation types - MPH, AMP, M. AMP, or the various non-stimulant formulations. So, what then? Do they not have ADHD then? What analogy would you use for them? What advice would have for them?

As ADHD as I am, I am not sure living 2/3 of my life (so far) untreated could accurately be described as "brain-fog." I have had brain-fog before from various other things, and I wouldn't use it to describe my symptoms, at least not on a daily basis. On days I go med-free, then sure, but I attribute that to the sudden withdraw and rebound-effects.

I think a huge problem for me was not the 'spacey' feelings or lack of attention, but that my attention was too good. My mind is like a Ferrari with no steering wheel. It can go fast, but there is no controlling it.

If something really attracts my attention, I can laser in on it to the point I cannot pull myself away be it video games, a topic I enjoy, etc.. (Hyperfocus, yes I know)

This a symptom medication does not improve, but actually makes worse. I guess I have to take the good with the bad. A doctor told me, "if you can find me 'the perfect' (no negatives) pill, then found a pill that doesn't do anything at all."

However, hyperfocus is my Icurus Complex. I basically cannot do any meaningful work it out, but alas it flies me too close to the sun where I can barely doing any meaningful work because of it.

Perhaps I had too high of expectations for medication. Maybe deep down I wanted something that made life easier, and not something that made life better.