[matheusmoreira]

> can we at least agree that it is an astounding engineering achievement

As the first cryptocurrency, it's certainly an incredible innovation and idea. However, it's already outdated technology.

Bitcoin failed to become everything it was idealized to be. It's not anonymous. It's not private. It's not fungible. It's not decentralized. It's not unregulated. It's not even a currency since transactions are not cheap and fast which makes them unusable.

The best thing this coin can do for the wider cryptocurrency space is disappear and let better projects take the lead. Yet it's the most popular coin and the only one the average person knows about. This is sad and to me it's proof of the complete irrationality of this market.

[samarama]

It was never meant to be private or anonymous. You’re creating huge strawmen here.

Bitcoin is definitely fungible and decentralised. You’re using a lot of words that you don’t know what they mean.

[zionic]

On the contrary, I don’t think you know what those words mean. Bitcoin is neither fungible or decentralized.

Mining is completely dominated/centralized by ASIC farms run by huge mining cartels.

Also, buying Bitcoin from someone else inherits that coin’s entire history. If those coins were stolen at some point you could become liable. Bitcoins are non-fungible.

[notch656a]

XMR is fungible, and bitcoin laid the foundation for that. IMO Bitcoin is just the entry point, like the ENIAC.

[samarama]

There is not one entity that controls Bitcoin, thus it is centralized. You can argue about degrees of decentralisation, but it is simply far more decentralised than FIAT.

You’re creating an impossible standard, a logical fallacy. Dollars can also be tainted with serial numbers, get damaged, be marked with colors.

Again, your argument only consists of logical fallacies.

[matheusmoreira]

No. It is absolutely centralized. To discover who's really in control of bitcoin, all you have to do is propose an upgrade that improves network but reduces miner profits.

This is not an impossible standard nor is it a fallacy. Either it's decentralized or it's not. Either it's fungible or it's not. Bitcoin is neither.

[samarama]

Nop, that’s a false dichotomy. As always, it’s a spectrum.

[matheusmoreira]

> Bitcoin is definitely fungible

Run your coins through a mixing service then try to deposit them at an exchange and cash out.

[krzyk]

> not unregulated

What do you mean?

> transactions are not cheap and fast

What do you mean by that? Becauee my transactions were cheap and quick

[matheusmoreira]

> What do you mean?

When it was created, it was idealized as the digital equivalent to cash. Totally private and anonymous so you can do whatever you want without some bank or government monitoring you or taking issue. It was supposed to be your money, not your social credit at the bank that the authorities allow you to use for approved purposes.

Bitcoin totally failed to become all that. The ledger is public and perfectly traceable so it's even worse than money at the bank. People have even identified the wallets of whales so that they can track their movements and see if they're about to dump on the market.

Coins are not fungible which means exchanges will refuse your tainted money if you use a mixing service for privacy. Governments will sanction addresses, making the coins held by them illegal and unacceptable by any business.

> Becauee my transactions were cheap and quick

Mine were not. Were you using the higher layer networks that delay blockchain settlement? Because that defeats the purpose of having cryptocurrencies in the first place.

[krzyk]

> Bitcoin totally failed to become all that. The ledger is public and perfectly traceable so it's even worse than money at the bank.

Well, but that's not about "not regulated", just not totally anonymous.

But it if you think about it is better than money in the bank. Because that can be traced only by governments, and here average Joe can do the tracing. So it is at least more egalitarian.

[matheusmoreira]

Anonymity is a prerequisite to being unregulated. Monero for example is apparently resistant to US sanctions. They tried to sanction a wallet and ended up sanctioning a transaction hash.

https://www.treasury.gov/ofac/downloads/sdnlist.txt

> Digital Currency Address - XMR 5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320;

https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207...