[SuoDuanDao]

"Woke" is simply the left's word for what the right calls 'Redpilled'. In both subcultures it means 'a recognition of some fundamental truth that does not bring joy'.

Done well, it can be a vehicle for criticising one's own culture in a constructive way. Done poorly, it can be a vehicle for oikophobia and gatekeeping, a means of distinguishing oneself from the naively patriotic proletariate.

[wolverine876]

> "Woke" is simply the left's word

I see it used much more on the right, such as in the comment that started this subthread.

EDIT: But otherwise, I think that's an excellent definition.

[cloverich]

I've actually only seen it used on the right, nearly always by friends or family who constantly read the news, always in a derogatory sense. Was it common on the left at some point?

[SuoDuanDao]

Yes, it originated there, though I guess it didn't last very long. It's a common rhetorical tactic used by partisans on the right - use the other side's own terminology to describe it, always with a tone of disgust, and repeat it until the sound of it becomes grating. "Social Justice Warrior" was similarly exclusively used by people describing their own political convictions when I first encountered the term.

[simplestats]

I'd say both sides make the other side's terminology into epithets. But mostly only the left seems to take it personally and stop using the word. Meanwhile the right will continue to embrace being labelled by what the left treats as epithets. Maybe it has something to do with individualism which is a sort of rebellious mindset on the right.

[SuoDuanDao]

I just realised an interesting symmetry - The right is more successful at loading the left's own terminology with negative connotations, while the left is more successful at adjusting definitions of shared language. I wonder whether this has something to do with the implicit communication styles of the respective tribes... Any theories?

[spaetzleesser]

“Woke” has quickly gone the way of “liberal” and become an insult. It was a stupid word anyway so I don’t mind if it just goes away.

[scollet]

I pity people who use "woke" as an insult.

[spaetzleesser]

It’s been a very long time since I have heard somebody use this word in a positive context.

[shkkmo]

This seems absolutely incorrect.

[4ggr0]

Seems strange to me, too.

Red Pilled is used in contexts where someone starts seeing the hidden truth the elites want to hide from them etc. Woke in my experience is more used to describe progressive people and their opinions, without having anything to do with some hidden secrets or other such things.

[lamontcg]

I honestly don't understand how you can't see that "being woke" is synonymous with being aware of facts that other don't see. Literally derived from "awake" and there by seeing the truth correctly.

One way or the other you might be having a difficult time seeing that they're both essentially propaganda, but its just the mirror image of the same thing.

[wolverine876]

The hidden secret is the life - the oppressive discrimination - many minorities, especially black persons, have been experiencing for generations, without most white people being aware of it. When you take that red pill, when you are open to the facts, it is shocking what has been happening right under our noses. You can't unsee it. A simple suggestion: Just talk about it with people who are black; if you don't know many, you can see how the blue pill world is created.

> Woke in my experience is more used to describe progressive people and their opinions

Like any hot cultural term, it has become loaded with plenty of other meaning. However, to a degree I think you are talking about the reactionaries' use of the word, which they have adopted to politicize it - to use their endless (and successful) rhetorical technique of attacking the messenger; of saying 'it's just liberals' to shift the discussion from the actual problem, racism. For example, you can see the same technique used for climate change.

[fundad]

I first read it as in “stay woke”, a reminder that your survival depends on seeing through people’s bullshit.

And the most harmful bullshit is that racism is a personal failing rather than a system working as designed; designed by people who will not peacefully let it go.

[wolverine876]

> the most harmful bullshit is that racism is a personal failing rather than a system working as designed; designed by people who will not peacefully let it go.

Yes, an essential point. But it's also a personal choice.

[4ggr0]

> I think you are talking about the reactionaries' use of the word

That's a fair point, yeah.

> When you take that red pill, when you are open to the facts, it is shocking what has been happening right under our noses

I think the problem there for me personally is, that "being red-pilled" was kinda adopted by the right wing, so I would never label myself red-pilled when I learn what kinds of things black people experience because of being who they are. But yeah, if we keep current politics out of our context, then I get what is meant with being red-pilled.

So essentially, red-pilled means "I learned(or at least think so) something which the mainstream(god I hate that word in the political context) does not know."

Furthermore, if what you think you've learned is objectively true, then you were red-pilled, if it's objectively wrong you just invented a new conspiracy theory.

[wolverine876]

> So essentially, red-pilled means "I learned(or at least think so) something which the mainstream(god I hate that word in the political context) does not know."

I think the definition is narrower. I think it's something that completely shifts your persecptive, that is relvelatory. I know things about certain policy issues that the mainstream doesn't - or about IT, but it's not the same.

> if what you think you've learned is objectively true, then you were red-pilled, if it's objectively wrong you just invented a new conspiracy theory.

This is the nature of all knowledge - there is no way around thinking critically, using all the skills (empiricism, post-modernism, etc.); it's never easy.

[iszomer]

My first encounter of the red/blue pill dichotomy was the first Matrix film. With social media like reddit, this idea spawned via memesis and certain communities began imitating their interpretations of what it meant for them. For example, the contrasts between r/theredpill and r/thebluepill and all the other subs it may have spawned as well, eg: r/mgtow.

Richard Dawkin's wrote a fantastic book called The Selfish Gene on exploring the difference between memetic and mimetic theory that's worth the read.

[fundad]

Redpill in the conservative context so often involves replacement theory.