[joe-mccann]

First, Austin is NOTHING like Texas. It is a beacon of progressive hope in an otherwise bass-ackwards state. I moved to Austin from New York City by way of Portland, Oregon so believe me, when I say that there is no way I would live in TEXAS; Austin is anything but that.

Also, other reasons Austin may be attractive to potential candidates:

1.) No state income tax. This is huge. If you make $140k a year in SF, you take home significantly less than you do in Texas. Also, there is no "city tax" like SF has.

2.) Cost of living is HALF, that's right, HALF of SF. Beautiful homes or urban condos are available and priced well below what you would spend buying OR renting in SF.

1 + 2 = lots of $$ in your pocket.

Not to mention the fact that Austin is arguably the hippest city in the country from a growth perspective. With events like ACL and SXSW (plus the thousands of live music shows throughout the rest of the year), the creative arts scene is flourishing.

Finally, the weather. It was 86 degrees, no humidity on December 19th last year. And yes, it is HOT in the summer, but with all that extra cash, you can go live in Europe for a few months to beat the heat.

[rdouble]

Do you get paid the same as in NYC?

I get recruited by companies in the midwest who tout that the cost of living is half of NYC. But, they also pay half as much as NYC, no relo package available. Whenever I do the math I still come out ahead in NYC.

The other downside I have found is that there are usually only one or two interesting companies and the rest is enterprise software.

[bretthoerner]

> The other downside I found is that there are usually only one or two interesting companies and the rest is enterprise software.

I moved from SF to Austin last year and have found this to be true.

[joe-mccann]

I don't necessarily agree with this. I used to work at frog design and am now 100% independent (doing consulting/contract work). There are loads of companies from startups like Gowalla and Whaleshark to more established companies like Facebook and BazaarVoice. On top of that, there are some what I would consider "serious" startups with quality founders and funding, like Spacecraft and Mass Relevance.

[bretthoerner]

This is just proof that "interesting" is very subjective. :)

[ktsmith]

I was under the impression that the Facebook presence in Austin was a sales office. Do they have engineering there now?

[joe-mccann]

good point.

[joe-mccann]

My net income was significantly higher after leaving NYC. Let's put it that way =)

[joe-mccann]

Are you asking me to share my specific income? That's not gonna happen. Let's do some hypotheticals.

$140k in NYC (this is a common salary/comp) $120k in Austin (this is a common salary/comp)

Nominal dollar amounts, yes, $20k is dollar for dollar, less. But now, factor in your taxes (NY State tax, Kings County, etc.) That $140k is now significantly less. Factor in cost of living being TWICE as much (literally, my rent per sq ft was more than twice what it was in Austin). You now are TAKING HOME less money.

So when I said net income, that's what I meant. If you're more concerned with a higher salary and less net income, then, well good luck to ya. I prefer to have more $$ in my pocket after it's all said and done.

[joe-mccann]

You're welcome, but the reason I explained is the answer is yes AND no. Yes, because gross dollar amount is less but No because take home is much more.

[rdouble]

I just asked whether you got paid the same in NYC as you do in Austin which is a yes or no question...no details required. Regarding take home, even with taxes and higher CoL I've still been able to save and invest more money in NYC due to much higher salaries. All that said it is good to know $120K is a common salary in Austin, thanks for the info.

[mahyarm]

So what would that 140k NY Salary and 120k Austin Salary be in the Bay Area?

[rdouble]

Which I take to mean no, but you pay less in rent or mortgage.

[joe-mccann]

So if you make $140k in NYC, but only take home say $95k.

Or you make $120k, but take home $95k. Then it's about the same.

Now factor in cost of living. The $$ in your pocket is higher. If you more concerned with the nominal/gross dollar amount as opposed to net income, I feel you are looking at the wrong metric.

[rdouble]

Thanks. I was just asking because I have a program I use to calculate the actual net pay. Most of the time when people propose these sorts of moves to me, they either did not do the math, or their math is factoring in other CoL adjustments I don't care about, or they are actually lying. It's almost never been a decision between $120K in the Midwest vs. $140K in NYC. More like $75K in the Midwest.

FWIW it looks like $120K in Austin is indeed almost exactly the same take-home as $140K in NYC. Austin you would make about 20 more dollars per week.

[toddmorey]

"It is a beacon of progressive hope in an otherwise bass-ackwards state." If you thought about it, wouldn't you say the same thing about Portland or NYC?

[rdouble]

Or any US state. Are there any states that aren't mostly redneck once you get up/out-state? Vermont?

[joe-mccann]

Not exactly. Oregon has rednecks as does upstate NY (I used to live there as well). The delta is the level of racism, bigotry and religious fundamentalism that plagues the state is significantly higher in Texas than other states. Hicks and bigots exist everywhere, but from my experience, Texas as a whole has more per capita than "coastal" states like Cali, Oregon or New York.

[Jgrubb]

I'm a contractor who lives in rural New Jersey. Back in late winter this year, I picked up one little Wordpress gig for a startup down in Austin. It went well. Since April, approximately 95% of the money I've made has come from companies based in Austin TX. I just got pinged yesterday from a contact about a potential long term dev gig that's looking to train the hire into the CTO over the next 2 years.

I'd love to move there because I'm really into the food and the music scene down there, but my Michigander wife is not into the brutal heat. I'm not sure what my point is, except that in my personal experience, Austin is absolutely exploding right now. There are at least a couple incubators down there, ala YC. The culture is really cool. It's pricey compared to Sussex county NJ, but there's also stuff to do there, not like Sussex county NJ.

Cheers.

[mahyarm]

You can say the same about Las Vegas, or living & working in Vancouver,WA (NOT Vancouver, Canada) and shopping in Portland,OR (no state income tax and no sales tax) or living in Seattle,WA. And employers pay fairly close to SF wages in Seattle. The weather, of course, is constant drizzly rain with glorious summers 3-4 months of the year, and scorching dessert in LV.

And there is Miami, FL. Nice weather, no income tax. I don't know anything about the housing market there, or culture.

You can also work in the UAE/Dubai, with 0 income tax! The laws are a bit oppressive and slavery in all but name fuels all the construction work. Or Singapore, with something around 9/10% total income tax at typical SF engineer wages. If your american, you still have to pay taxes to uncle sam after ~$94k if you work in another country.