[trinovantes]

> I believe that being unvaccinated in fact does not cause harm to others.

They are a tiny part of society but take up a large portion of ICU capacity. This delays elective surgeries (e.g. cancer) for everybody else. Most hospitals in Ontario have already suspended all elective surgeries. Somebody with curable cancer today could die in a few months thanks to anti-vaxers.

[ifyoubuildit]

How many of those people clogging up the icus are people who are unvaccinated but had a prior infection?

I'm saying that I don't think being unvaccinated is the issue, despite people like Macron repeating that. Being seronaive and careless is.

[trinovantes]

Does it matter? Either way, their choice of not taking a vaccine has a higher chance of them denying a hospital bed from somebody who needs it

[ifyoubuildit]

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108120

This is evidence that it does matter. That the unvaccinated as a whole are some outsized threat to everyone is misleading at best. The subset of the unvaccinated that are seronaive are more likely to take up hospital beds, that seems to be true. The unvaccinated with a prior infection are not.

This is important because the general populace has been whipped up into a frenzy and pointed roughly in the direction of myself and people like me, who are not an issue. With asshats like Macron stirring the pot like this, its leading us to a scary place, and its all for political points.

[trinovantes]

You're citing old data that doesn't even include delta or omnicron

> Primary infection was defined as the first PCR-positive swab. Reinfection was defined as the first PCR-positive swab obtained at least 90 days after the primary infection.

Many people can also be asymptomatic and may not bother getting a PCR test for their first infection. When their reinfection requires an ICU bed, would they be counted as primary infection or reinfection?

Also what is the point of making this distinction? Every antivaxer will need to infected at least once to build immunity. Are we supposed to purposely infect the unvaxed for them to build immunity (i.e. exactly what a vaccine is supposed to do)? And if they're unvaxed primary infection, we're back to where we started, as you said, they're the main cause of ICU capacity.

[ifyoubuildit]

> You're citing old data that doesn't even include delta or omnicron

Do you have anything showing the counterpoint? I'm very interested in seeing it if you do.

The point of making this distinction is that hundreds of millions of people have already been infected and shouldn't be hounded and harassed by people yo take a vaccine if they don't want it.

If you want me to worry that unvaccinated people with a prior infection are clogging up ICUs, show me evidence that its actually happening and I'd be happy to get on board.

[trinovantes]

You're asking for impossible data. There's not enough testing capacity and data collection to determine if an unvaxxed person in the ICU truly has a prior infection.

And what do you think we do to distinguish between the supposedly two distinct groups of antivaxxers? Should they carry a blood test or antibody passport? Even if they're no longer a threat to ICUs doesn't negate the fact that at one point in time they were a threat.