[jamespullar]

I have been laughed at by passengers in my car before for using my turn signals when no other cars were around. That really blew my mind the first time. Why anyone would try shaming someone else for adhering to safe driving practices is beyond me.

If you just use them all the time, you don't have to remember to use them in the right situation. That was a concept more than one person I know couldn't understand.

This was in California with other licensed drivers.

[steve_adams_86]

My wife laughs and prods at me constantly for reflexively putting on my seat belt when I get into parked cars, using my turn signal when there are no other vehicles (or I'm indicating that I'm leaving a roundabout), cleaning my windows/mirrors at the gas station if a long highway drive in bad weather is reducing visibility with salt/mud/etc, carrying a belt cutter, safety kit and air/booster/tools in the trunk, refusing to drive after having a drink, you name it.

She's an intelligent person, accomplished in her own scientific career and a stimulating person to talk to, all great signals about her brain, but dumb driving sense pervades all intellectual capacities I think. I sincerely worry she will die in a car accident. She is positive it would be me, though - she thinks I'm "overthinking" driving and driving safety, which introduces far more danger.

I've been in two car accidents. Maybe that helps. In one case my friend backed us up into a street light really fast because he seemingly didn't realize the accelerator was the brake. The other time I was crawling down a steep driveway in bad weather and my car slid off the driveway, down a hill, and ended up in the ditch below. It looked like a severe accident at a glance, haha. It was actually very slow and boring as it happened.

At any rate, these events instilled in me that small errors can have large consequences. The feeling of your car not doing what you want it to, then being in a situation out of your control, really sucks. I'm not interested in the slightest in finding out how badly that can go. Whether it's because I left my seat belt off, I had a beer, I couldn't see out of my rear window properly, I got stranded in the cold - these are all enormously bad reasons to get hurt or die.

A lot of people have never faced consequences or witnessed the disproportionate result of minor errors, so perhaps driving is one of those things were (unfortunately) many of us learn the hard way, often bringing innocent bystanders with us.

[seba_dos1]

To me, your behavior seems like basic and uncontroversial common sense, while her behavior is absolutely crazy and hard to understand.

[2-718-281-828]

same here. a nice example is the repair stuff including inner tubes I tend to carry around on bike tours (like 10km and more). she also made fun of me for being so well equipped. and then one day she had a flat tire. good thing I had that stuff with me. because otherwise we'd have had to walk it for quite some time.

[steve_adams_86]

Ha, likewise - I used to tour really far (300-600km in a day sort of things) and sometimes I'd make the whole trip without a hitch, other times I'd get several flats in a day. It became second nature to assume my bike was going to get a flat soon, so I still carry it in a saddle bag everywhere I go.

Of course she thought it was silly too, but yeah, we cycle everywhere and I've fixed a lot of flats now.

In their defense, I only figured out why you should bring kit everywhere because I've been stranded badly, totally unprepared. I was finishing a 400km ride, around 40km to go at 1am, and my tire went. It was cold, raining, low/no traffic, no cell service for most of the trek back, etc. I got home as the sun was rising, haha.

[2-718-281-828]

600km per day by bike? that's an average of 25km/h for every single hour of a day ...

[steve_adams_86]

You're right, what I should say is per continuous riding session - I used to take more like 38 hours for 600s (just under the cutoff, haha). There are breaks, usually 30m max, but I tended to average more like 18kph over complete ride. I wanted to reach 20kph, but had a kid instead – that kind of threw a stick in taking long rides.

Here's more info if you're curious, it's a fun sport called randonneuring: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randonneuring

Here's an example 400km route from an area near me run by the BC Randonneurs: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/33536016

It's a great way to get to know areas better. Very meditative, challenging, and rewarding.

[mason55]

> I have been laughed at by passengers in my car before for using my turn signals when no other cars were around

The times when I think "no one is around me" are the times using my turn signal has been MOST useful. Same thing in parking lots. If I see all the other cars on the road then I can drive defensively and avoid them. The turn signal is important for the cars that I DON'T see because it gives them a better chance of avoiding ME.

[steve_adams_86]

That's exactly it. Because I think I'm alone doesn't mean I am.

My blind spot indicator in my car has 100% prevented me from merging when I shouldn't, though I can't say with certainty how often. I'm a little embarrassed to say, too, that I've been honked at in the past for merging when I shouldn't. I think twice in 20 years, but still. I have no reason to think those incidents couldn't have been severe.

No one is 100% sure what's surrounding them at any time, plain and simple.

This is one argument I see for autonomous driving which actually seems valid to me. Those vehicles will be able to see far more than a human facing forward with a few mirrors. At the moment I think the problem is that the human can make far more sense from what they see, though.

[olyjohn]

Don't rely on your blind spot indicator, it's there to help, not replace a blind spot check. They often don't pick up motorcycles and especially not bikes. I have seen them not light up many many times when I'm passing through someone's blind spot on my motorcycle, when the car in front of me does set it off...

[steve_adams_86]

I definitely don't rely on it, I agree with you. I think what happens is I have moments of thinking I should be able to merge, then checking the indicator and realizing I was wrong. In those cases it's very likely I'd do a thorough check, but it's a great reminder otherwise that my gut sense of my surrounding is incorrect, and I do need to check thoroughly and, for lack of a better explanation, assume I'm always wrong until I've fully checked my surroundings.

[MerelyMortal]

If the sideview mirrors are set properly, there shouldn't be a blindspot.

If you can see the side of your own vehicle in your side view mirrors, they are set improperly.

When set properly, cars in the lane next you on either side should transition from your rearview mirror to your sideview mirror to your driver or passenger window without any gap in coverage.

The sideview mirrors are to see other cars, not your own car. You're in your own car, so there is no reason to set it to see the side of your own car. If you can see the side of your own car, then angle the mirrors out until you can't. Next time someone passes, check to make sure you see them transition your mirrors properly, it they don't tweak your mirrors a little more.

[beej71]

You're not wrong, but as a motorcyclist, I'd prefer everyone look back regardless of how correctly their mirrors are adjusted.

[b3morales]

Indeed. Beyond that, it's also entirely possible there's someone -- a pedestrian on the sidewalk ahead, a driver about to exit their driveway... -- that you don't see but who is interested in what you're planning to do. (This happens to me commonly as a pedestrian.)

[jakub_g]

You reminded me about a situation with my father: basically he uses signals for overtaking/turning, not before it to signal the intent. There are many people who do it this way. He would look around forever in the mirrors etc. trying to start the manoeuvre but won't let anyone know his intent until it's already happening.

Incidentally, last week we were installing a fridge, and while cutting the packaging with a sharp knife, he told me, without looking, "be careful!" (without saying "yo, I'm cutting stuff with the sharp knife"), around 0.1s before cutting my hand ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This made me realize how prevalent and dangerous are poor communication skills.

[dahart]

> he uses signals for overtaking/turning, not before it to signal the intent.

This is the real reason. People aren’t incapable or put out by having to use the turn signals, they are choosing not to signal precisely because it reveals intent, and they are afraid of revealing intent. (Same is often true in many other social situations and at work!) I know I’ve done this myself in the past, and I know other people who will admit it. Fear of being cut off, fear of having someone not let you in, general fear of someone using your intent against you rather than accommodate you.

I think we need to figure out how to teach not just that signaling intent is safer, but that it works and people will accommodate a signal far more often than not. We also need to learn as drivers to respect other’s intent, that when a signal is on and it’s close but they have room, it doesn’t mean accelerate to close the gap, but that we should let them. Being nice is how we get others to be nice back.

[mring33621]

"using your intent against you rather than accommodate you"

The Chicago way

[dahart]

I was about to say it’s probably everywhere in the US (world?), but then I remembered the only physical vehicle collision I’ve ever had in my life while moving was in Chicago, someone so determined to prevent me from merging they crashed into the back of my vehicle.

[Freak_NL]

It's even more silly when you figure that consciously deciding whether or not you are going to use them takes a lot more effort than just doing it for every turn automatically. We only have so much of our attention to parcel out, and using it for pointless things while driving is negligence.

[dahart]

I finally bought a new & modern car a few years ago, and one of my favorite features is that it beeps at me when I turn on my signal and someone’s in my blind spot. At this point I can no longer count the number of times I was unaware someone was there and I even started moving into their space but got a beep notification and avoided turning into them. Using my signal is becoming absolutely reflexive now, because it helps me “feel” my surroundings and avoid doing things that surprise other drivers when I can’t see them.

[upofadown]

That implies poor training. It sounds like the people involved do not know why they are supposed to signal in the first place.

[acdha]

It's not training: they 100% know that you're supposed to signal, stop at red lights or stop signs, park in the middle of a traffic lane, not cross a solid double yellow to pass someone going the speed limit, etc. The people who do that are choosing to do it because they feel whatever they're doing is more important and they know that most police departments stopped doing traffic enforcement years ago because it's beneath post-9/11 warrior cops unless they're looking for an excuse to search someone's car.

[upofadown]

But do they know why they are supposed to do those things? You might try asking someone sometime. The result could be surprising.

[lamontcg]

> If you just use them all the time, you don't have to remember to use them in the right situation.

I know of dead cave divers who followed protocols only when they really needed to and then one day made a category error and didn't follow the protocol when they really needed to.

I've gotten crap for following through the motions of protocols when they I "didn't need to" but if you do it all the time then you never make those kinds of category errors. There's no downside to always following protocols, there's high downside for making category errors that you wouldn't make if you just always followed protocols.

Similarly you should always use your parking brake, even if you are on flat ground so that you never make a category error there (or just get hit by someone when you're on flat ground and have a rollaway).

Similarly, signal your intentions every single time. You're doing it for the pedestrian you didn't see, or even just some idiot flying up the shoulder of the highway who shouldn't be there, but signal your intentions to take the exit so you move predictably.

See also the normalization of deviance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljzj9Msli5o

[standardUser]

The ever-so-slight flicking of the wrist is apparently an arduous task for some people.

[CodeGlitch]

The one time I was nearly in a serious accident was when I was in the fast lane on a nearly empty motorway - apart from a line of lorries in the slow lane, moved from the fast lane into the middle line without indicating... but one of the lorry drivers also moved into that lane nearly clipping my rear.

Yeah I was pretty shaken up about that one, because if he had clipped me, I would have ended up being crushed by a line of lorries.

Moral of the story: always indicate even if you don't think you need to.

[gitgrump]

"Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching." — C. S. Lewis, allegedly.

[rasz]

I once stopped and asked my passenger to get out, in random part of the city, after big argument about seatbelts.