[maxbond]

Let's put this meme to bed. Tauri has been developed for two years now. People don't just write Rust because it's trendy. If you want to throw stones at Rust, there are many more substantial criticisms to make.

Our compilation times are long.

Those sweet, ergonomic macro interfaces are only possible because of proc-macro dark magic that tends to be very verbose and special case-y.

There's no spec.

Unsafe is overused.

Et cetera.

[kybernetyk]

>People don't just write Rust because it's trendy.

[Citation needed]. Because when your unique selling point is "it's like $otherproduct but written in $language" then well ...

[maxbond]

Tauri's pitch is something like, "Electron, but lighter weight and more secure," not "written in Rust." If you're skeptical of the value in that, hey, so am I.

I'll cite my own experience:

I learned Rust because I needed a modern systems language in my toolbox. I specifically wanted something that could be used to write firmware. So I chose Rust over alternatives like Go or D, because I couldn't tolerate a garbage collector with those requirements. Trendiness had nothing to do with it; in fact, I was hesitant to pick it up because I was worried it wouldn't have staying power. (Having taken the plunge, I have no regrets.)

[bocytron]

Here's your citation: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#most-loved-dr...

Rust is #1 loved language, almost 20 points above the second one.

[goodpoint]

I can't imagine a better definition of trendy and hyped up than "loved on stack overflow".

[saghm]

Six years in a row is more than just a fleeting thing; obviously we have no way to know for sure what will happen in the next few years, but it seems likely that Rust isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Lendal]

I don't do anything because it's trendy and I don't use Stack Overflow, but I have used Rust in a project. Its popularity with me is 100% merit-based. In fact, the project failed only because of management not understanding its value and me being unable to communicate to them why Rust is superior.

The language ultimately chosen for the project ended up being 100% a political contest, and that language was not Rust.

[rileyphone]

Or maybe people just like working with it? Trend and hype bring people to it, sure, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s an incredibly economic language that’s also fast.

[kybernetyk]

Reminds me kinda of the Haskell hype a few years back.

[StevePerkins]

I don't think the criticism is of Tauri. As far as I can tell from their website, THEY aren't promoting THEMSELVES on the basis of their implementation language being the #1 feature.

I think the criticism/meme is directed more at overly enthusiastic fans of Rust. Even if a project doesn't promote itself as "Written in Rust!", that's how it gets promoted online by the fanboys. It IS a substantial criticism, as generally they are not doing the credibility of these projects any favors.

[maxbond]

I understand it wasn't about Tauri specifically, but I still think it's instructive. The implication is, no one does anything serious in Rust, they only post half-baked projects on HN for karma. Which falls pretty flat in a thread about project that's been actively worked on for two years, wouldn't you say?

People are actually building stuff in Rust because they have, for whatever reason, decided they care about that language and ecosystem. There's no requirement that _you_ care about it. But the reasonable response to seeing something you aren't interested in is to do something else, and to leave the discussion to those who are interested. Entering the conversation just to let everyone know you don't care is tiresome and gratuitous.

It's pretty common for people to tag a tool with the language it's written in. It's interesting information. For instance, I don't work with JavaScript, so I'm not particularly interested in what's happening in that ecosystem. Putting JavaScript in the title lets me know I'm probably not the audience. People don't seem to complain about posts like, "Foo: Bar for JavaScript".

The "Rust is for clout" meme exists in the minds of it's detractors, not in the minds of the people who are actually writing in it. So no, it isn't substantive. It's more a form of straw man. "I don't care about this thing, and no one else should either, because it isn't a real language. It's just for karma."

Here's a thought experiment. Let's say that writing something in Rust really is the recipe to hit the front page of HN. Why is it that that works? Can it be for any reason other than there's a lot of people who are interested and want to learn more about it?

And if you're not one of those people - doesn't it make the most sense to just click a different article?

[StevePerkins]

> "Entering the conversation just to let everyone know you don't care is tiresome and gratuitous."

No one broadly commenting on the "... written in Rust!" meme is saying that they "don't care". They are saying that they DO care. About the clout-chasing aspect, going unchallenged, clogging up a generally high-quality forum with what amounts to spam or clickbait.

If you get a lot of spam in your email inbox, you would take a dim view toward the pompous admonition, "If you are are not interested in homeopathic erectile dysfunction pills, then you are free to scroll onward and leave it to those who are". In the case of a message you DO happen to be interested in, you would still right to discourage the use of clickbait tactics or dark patterns with that message.

BOTTOM LINE: Either the topic of this this post is "Tauri", or the topic of this post is "Rust".

* If the topic is Tauri, then the clickbait meme detracts from the topic (I note with interest that the Tauri project itself does NOT promote itself on the basis of its implementation language).

* If the topic of this post is Rust, then well... I honestly think you'd be better served promoting a single "Look at all of these 'serious' projects written in Rust!" post, rather than sidejacking a myriad of topics individually in a clickbaity manner.

Either way, if you don't care about the spam/clickbait criticisms that always arise in these threads, then I invite you to leave that discussion to those who are interested.

[maxbond]

"This topic is overvalued in the marketplace of ideas" is equivalent to "I don't care about this idea."

The problem with spam is that it is involuntary and fraudulent. The thing about articles on Rust is that participation is voluntary, and the claims they are only for clout are untrue, as I've argued.

I'd be curious what your answers to my thought experiments are.

ETA: I apologize for making you feel admonished, that wasn't my intention. I'm really not interested in criticizing you or anyone as people, but the behavior and the sentiment behind it. My intention wasn't to throw mud, but to hold up a mirror and show how this message is received; I did my honest best to compose a convincing counter argument, and the reaction I was going for was, "Gee, I hadn't thought of it that way", and not, "This jerk is calling me out."

[Fiahil]

And where are GATs ?

(See also: https://blog.rust-lang.org/2021/08/03/GATs-stabilization-pus...)