[guerby]

TL;DR version not antivax but choose not to vax because feeling healthy at 72.

"die of Covid"

"the brothers had not been vaccinated against Covid-19."

"Their friends said they were convinced their healthy lifestyle would protect them"

"Asked why they had chosen not to have the Covid vaccines if they were not themselves anti-vaxxers, Luc Ferry said on Monday: "Like Igor, Grichka wasn't antivax, he was just antivax for himself. "They were both athletic, with not an inch of fat, and they thought the vaccine was more dangerous than the virus.""

https://www.lamontagne.fr/paris-75000/actualites/covid-19-qu...

From 31 may to 14 november 2021 a total of 2854 unvaccinated people died of COVID19 in France and 2179 died while having at least one shot of vaccine.

About 77% of the population has at least one shot in France.

[tehwebguy]

A distinction without a difference.

[Majestic121]

It's a pretty contradicting statement to say in the same sentence "I'm not antivax but I think the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus"

It seems like they were actually antivax but did not want the social stigma associated with the term. "I'm not antivax but however yadda yadda"

It reminds me of the classical "Racism is pretty fun because it does not exists, just ask around you'll see nobody is"

[mikestew]

It reminds me of the classical…

In the U. S., it would have been a sentence ripped right out of the jackass playbook: “I’m not a racist, but…”, <says blatantly racist statement>.

[gunfighthacksaw]

I enjoy the confusing reversal when you pair it with something not racist:

“Now look, I’m not racist but the dry air this winter has done a number on my sinuses”

[Shorel]

Yeah, nowadays, many people want to avoid any and all controversy.

One of my friends says he is not vegetarian or vegan, he just doesn't eat meat and tells everyone they should not eat meat.

[xboxnolifes]

> It's a pretty contradicting statement to say in the same sentence "I'm not antivax but I think the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus"

In more general terms, outside of covid for a moment, do you think so? If you have been vaccinated for X, Y, and Z, but think the risks of vaccinating for R out weigh the benefits, does that make you antivax?

[treesprite82]

I'd say anyone who buys into the wave of fearmongering against vaccines is antivax, even if they've had previous vaccinations. Two twins in their 70s choosing not to get vaccinated would fall into this camp.

Conversely, if there's someone for whom medical consensus agrees is legitimately better off without vaccines (e.g: due to some immune system condition), then I wouldn't call them antivax.

[Veen]

It's not an unreasonable opinion where small children with no comorbidities are concerned. Extremely low risk from COVID; tiny but not non-existent risk from the vaccine. It's a different matter when you're in your early 70s though.

[adrianN]

It's a valid opinion that for most people the vaccine is beneficial, but for some people the vaccine is more dangerous than the infection. Usually the plausible example are young children, not people over 70 though.

[tilolebo]

What does make it a valid opinion? Can you back it with any data?

[drcongo]

It's valid if your opinion of the word "valid" is the opposite of what everyone else thinks it means.

[adrianN]

Until recently we didn't vaccinate children under 12, we still don't vaccinate children under 5. I'm sure there are other groups of people we will never vaccinate. Therefore it's not completely bonkers to believe that you personally don't need the vaccine because you're in a very special group of people while also believing that almost everybody should get vaccinated.

[whimsicalism]

Afaik no young child has been killed by the vaccine in the US, whereas a few hundred have been killed by covid.

Most vaccine deaths seem to be among 20 somethings

[whatshisface]

The fact that health authorities have not been vaccinating young children on the basis of the data we do have has made some contribution to the fact that young children haven't had reactions to it.

[whimsicalism]

They are vaccinating children older than 5, you are talking about below this?

There's no evidence you have for this assertion that for children the vaccine is more dangerous than the illness. Neither are particularly dangerous at all for young children, but the disease has been linked to deaths in children.

[whatshisface]

The chances of myocarditis didn't seem to decrease with age as fast as the chances of a serious case of the virus, so maybe there's an inflection point somewhere... Could be at three weeks before birth though for all I know.

[michaelt]

In the UK, back in July 2021 the government's scientific advisers said, based on the evidence at the time, the health benefits of universal vaccination in children and young people below the age of 18 years do not outweigh the potential risks [1].

Subsequently better evidence became available, and it was decided to extend vaccination to under-18s.

Perhaps whatshisface is merely recalling six-month-old official advice?

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccinat...

[adrianN]

I don't know the statistics and generally believe that everybody should probably get the shot, I just wanted to point out that it's not a lunatic position to simultaneously believe that the vaccine is good and refuse to take it because you yourself might be in a group where the risk of an infection is lower than the risk of the vaccine.

[whimsicalism]

Yes, and I agree. I am just unsure whether anyone in the world without an autoimmune disorder actually finds themselves in that position.

[rajin444]

Do we know why some vaccinated people still die of Covid? That would probably help a lot in figuring out who will benefit from the vaccine.

[CodeGlitch]

Because for your body to fight a virus, it needs to have a good working immune system. Some people lack that for various reasons. A vaccine helps in this case but it's not 100%.

Being "fit" certainly helps your immune system. But as we see here, it doesn't make you invincible.

[karlkloss]

I'm not someone who believes in conspiracy theories, but one could come to the conclusion, that this massive campaign against vaccinations, and the general downplaying of the pandemic is a conspiracy to get rid of dumb people.