[noduerme]

It would really scare me if dang wasn't the first one. But at the same time, I feel immense pain thinking about what he has to deal with on a daily basis. Literally the entire functioning of the last somewhat civil, fully moderated, independent, anon-friendly board on the internet in 2021 on the shoulders of one admin. I'd like to say how a million flowers should bloom from this shining example, but it seems more like a superhuman attempt to hold back the flood.

In any event, it's been worth it and it's been a job well done.

Also, I'm surprised and a bit ashamed to be #415 in this list. That's probably a whole side-project's worth of time I could have spent elsewhere. But I guess we all need somewhere to commune, talk shop, make friends or blow off some steam. FWIW I've learned far more from HN in the last year than I've been able to bring to it, and I'm thankful for the avenues it leads me down every day as a reader. I would post a lot less if I stopped drinking but, yeah.

[Sebb767]

> [...] on the shoulders of one admin

Actually, there are multiple admins. See his response to my question here [0].

That's, of course, not to distract from his great work; as I've stated multiple times already, I really think HN is one of the best moderated communities overall.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26999571

[baxtr]

By now, there should be enough data to automate dang? On a more serious note: Is he really doing this all by himself? If so, I am sure he could train some junior people to off-load the work.

[DenisM]

Proper moderation requires strength of character to moderate evenly people you do and do not agree with. Not something you can impart on others, even less so on juniors.

[noduerme]

Being a waiter, working in a casino, being a cab driver, and running a coffee shop... you know, the secret to banning people is that you're always fair and more equitable than everyone else who's screaming, so when you do finally do it, everyone is either happy or scared they'll be next. People are surprisingly easy to manipulate this way. It would be wonderful if more sites activated that part of people's fear-lizard-brain more often; good manners are partly taught and partly enforced.

[baxtr]

Yes you're right that it requires strength. And, at the same time, people have been training other people in every profession to do their jobs for ages. It's how we have survived and thrived as a species.

[noduerme]

Ok. But where does one learn this strength, and subtlety? This is an amazing idea. For me it was as a waiter, and a taxi driver. Lots of people are assholes, but they're all people. You have to treat them with respect; but you have to be willing to ban them. How do you teach such a thing? Okay. Here's my great idea. Let's make a site where people can mod HN. Use an algorithm to coach them to be better moderators. Train them to learn patience.

How long do you think it would take to write that? How good do you think your trainees would be in the real world? Or would it just be better to have someone go live in the world for a long time?

If so... doesn't that mean it's a rarely acquired skill?

[visarga]

I was thinking that dang is going to be one of the most represented voices in GPT-4 and later. Hopefully you can retrieve him from the mix by nickname.

[noduerme]

>> I am sure he could train some junior people to off-load the work.

I'm sure he does, and I don't know. But that way lies every other site on the internet...

[peoplefromibiza]

> Literally the entire functioning of the last somewhat civil, fully moderated, independent, anon-friendly board on the internet in 2021

I recognize an hyperbole when I see one, but this one is kinda of a big one.

[mohanmcgeek]

To be honest, This is definitely more civil than other forums on the internet which have essentially become silos of their political leaning.

Even the people who disagree with you here are polite. There are your occasional reddit-style "cool" sounding snarky comments every now and then. But decent overall

[noduerme]

Name one that's apolitical, anonymous, and personally moderated post by post? Some reddit subs might fit the bill, or some car enthusiast forums or something where wide-ranging conversations are banned. But this is a hard, hard thing to mod. I don't think we have anything else like it these days. That's why I'm actually here.

[xiphias2]

r/science is not that bad, well moderated...I know it because I was banned there quite fast for not being scientific enough :)

Though the psychology part of r/science is too much, much less scientific and more biased to a political view

[noduerme]

A life of banning and being banned makes you who you are today. It's called civilization. And of course, when you get your first lesson you yell about other people having bent a rule or two; then later bending some rules is something you earn as a privilege. I was an angry child in the 80s ;)

[peoplefromibiza]

> Name one that's apolitical, anonymous, and personally moderated post by post?

There are literally millions of forums out there.

On any topic.

Even simply statistically speaking, there's a ton like that.

[noduerme]

There are a few I'm in that really moderate. One is for owners of old Datsuns. One is for pedal steel guitar players ($5 per year, just to keep out the junk). That's okay if you're running a PHP forum with a couple thousand users, a few dozen concurrents at most. Modding this thing as one or a few people? That's a whole 'nother animal.

[peoplefromibiza]

> Modding this thing as one or a few people? That's a whole 'nother animal

But does this make HN truly unique?

I don't think it does.

If the OP said "among the forums I'm in HN is the only one that ..." I'd have nothing to object.

[noduerme]

To me it's the one thing that truly does. I've been here ten years and I think the moderation is the unsung reason it's survived and manages to keep going. It's actually not obvious at all how personal and deep the moderation is until you get on the wrong side of it. If you've never been banned, it's like the invisible protocol that keeps communication flowing smoothly; you don't ask what that protocol is if it doesn't break down. It's quite subtle, at times almost sublime in that it's capable of weighing humanity against dread/mob/internet. So in my observation over many years, I think that is definitely what has made this site unique.

[falseanon3000]

That's rich, HN blocks all posts from VPN and flags all new account posts which are hidden until approved. Like this one.

[fragmede]

off the top of my head: metafilter.com, lobste.rs, something awful,

[glenstein]

I think tildes, and the main instance of Lemmy count as well.

[Banana699]

metafilter is anything but apolitical, they literally ban differences of opinion.

[DenisM]

If you want to help you can point out clear-cut guideline violations in a comment, or mail them to dang directly. Just don’t violate the guidelines yourself in the process.

I also prefer to keep the guideline commentary separate from any other matter so as not to dilute the message.

[numair]

> independent, anon-friendly board on the internet in 2021

There is a lot of stealth censorship on HN that occurs behind the scenes. After I wrote a post that was critical of Stripe, all of my new posts are automatically shadow banned. This place won’t survive for much longer, I don’t think.

Edit: And before dang posts some dumb response, I will tell you that he said “the algorithm” decided that my posts were “self promotion.” Anyway, maybe this is a good way of ending my commenting on this forum — time to help those who want to create something new.

[DenisM]

I read your comments as far back as I had the time and most are abrasive. If you tone it down you will find it easier to be heard.

[hirundo]

"Also, I'm surprised and a bit ashamed to be #415 in this list."

"humblebrag, transitive + intransitive: to make a seemingly modest, self-critical, or casual statement or reference that is meant to draw attention to one's admirable or impressive qualities or achievements" -- https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/humblebrag

[noduerme]

No, I'm actually both surprised and somewhat ashamed. I wouldn't brag to people here. And I certainly wouldn't mention it to anyone I know in real life. ("What's Hacker News? Oh you're on some internet forum where you have points? Wow.") Is there somewhere deep, deep in my cockles, or sub-cockles, where I'm proud of myself? eh. I don't know. Being ranked definitely rubs me the wrong way. I guess it means some of my late-night missives weren't sent completely into the void.

upvoted, btw. Thanks for making me wonder what kind of asshole I am.

[hirundo]

It's a problem that we've made a reasonable amount of bragging into a social error. Your HN rank is in fact a substantive accomplishment, acknowledging that you're in the top small fraction of contributors to one of the most valuable communities on the web. Thank you for making it richer for me. And there's also nothing wrong with speculating about better uses for your time.

I don't think its assholery to make a legit brag or to bow to tall poppy syndrome. I think it's sad that the bow to the all too human neurosis has become required by etiquette.