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by Atomskun 1636 days ago
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7 comments

Please do not cross into personal attack on HN, and especially please don't do internet psychiatric diagnosis here.

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a...

Perhaps you don't feel you owe article authors better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sounds like the author is getting help already. Starting with the diagnosis. Receiving a diagnosis that you have a personality disorder is not an easy pill to swallow. It also doesn't fix anything, but it helps explain past behavior.

Narcissism may also play a role but as a personality disorder it is incredibly difficult to manage and find support for.

Saying "drop your pride" to someone that you suspect of having NPD doesn't seem any more helpful to me than saying "just stop having obsessive thoughts" to someone with OCD. Besides sounding harsh, this attitude is probably not very useful or effective.

Imagine realizing you wasted a decade of your life in the false hope of making a difference, but couldn’t because of a dysfunctional community dynamic… I can’t because I haven’t done that, and perhaps you can’t either.

It may read this way to you but that’s the nature of blogs. They’re public diaries. Narcissism is often part of the medium itself.

The problem is she had specific ideas of what would make C++ better, and when 500 smart people are in the room there will be people who disagree. I've seen a lot of what I thought were good ideas get shot down when someone else brought out an objection I hadn't though of. Sometimes someone listens to the objection, spends a couple years of rework, and the process repeats a few times until the objections are satisfied, or at least the majority agree they are worth ignoring. This is not easy, but it is a required part of making them useful. Anything else just adds more inconsistencies until C++ is completely unusable.

Many people cannot handle it and think it is the C++ community being obstructionist when in fact it is just that we all have different needs, the only thing in common is we need a language that we can use for our problem so you better not mess that up.

That would be true, except large parts of the current C++ process are broken. The process advocates for papers, biasing towards people with personal quests and a lot of free time. I had many (informal) objections to <random> while it was in the standards process, but since I didn't have time to write a paper, the library got waved through in its broken state.
I don't usually see many blogs like that. The best authors with the most knowledge and experience also tend to be the most humble.
Completely agreed, but sometimes blog posts by ordinary writers end up on the front page here, and it’d be good to consider that maybe they weren’t expecting tens of thousands of people would read it. In this case I think it pays to cut the author some slack and sympathize a bit.

The author has clearly had a rough time, and there’s no need for an internet pile-on. At the very least it’s not constructive and needlessly personal to label the author a narcissist as in the top level comment I’m responding to.

Maybe the ability to “make a difference” while being disconnected from the community enough to not see the dysfunction is the dysfunction.

I’ve never fully understood the languagism stuff and I have openly mocked “… considered harmful” but maybe languagism should be considered harmful. Seriously, if you like writing software, isn’t the tooling a medium? Bad tools is no fun but you can still make software, you can solve problems, you can see it work, that’s what it’s about, right?

Yep. The whole "if you wanted to know why I was an ass to your, it's bc of OCD" argument is bullshit.

That's not an apology, that's an excuse, and there aren't many of those to justify treating people badly.

> Imagine needing to announce your "departure" from a community.

If you're active enough in a community that you'd need to explain something multiple times to multiple close contacts then isn't it the most efficient way to do it?

> Imagine needing to announce your "departure" from a community.

The exact same thing jumped out at me. Does anyone know if the author is a particularly well known or influential member of the C++ community?

I can't speak to their well-known-ness or influence, but they're definitely one of my favorite cppcon speakers[0]

The community is lessened by their departure

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7THzO-D0ta4

Maybe Strousoup was showing disgust at the words written on the t-shirt?
What makes you suggest that?
There is at least one profanity written on it.
And that warrants looks of disgust?
That video's from 2017, the snub was 2015.
Contributing to the spec, creating a very widely used set of CMake utilities, and being a widely enjoyed speaker not enough for you?

With the condescending airquotes and demeaning comment, one might think you had done some research. Clearly you hadn't. A Google search can tell you all of this.

> "Contributing to the spec, creating a very widely used set of CMake utilities, and being a widely enjoyed speaker not enough for you?"

No, this is clearly not enough to get shit accepted into the C++ standard. As evident by the fact that none of OP's ideas made it into the standard. Why should any of that matter?

I'm sure OP is not alone here, by the way. I submit there must be thousands of amazing ideas proposed by amazing people that don't end up being accepted into the standard for a myriad of reasons. Get over it.

> As evident by the fact that none of OP's ideas made it into the standard

Yet another person on here who didn't read the article.

> Multi-argument indexing made it into the C++23 standard, and so did std::byteswap. That’s my legacy I guess.

I haven't done any C++ in nearly a decade and I know who she is, I have read some of her articles and listened to her in a podcast or two.
They were around. I remember that Izzy was a part of the conversation around modules for example.
> Imagine needing to announce your "departure" from a community.

Nothing weird about this.