[thawkins]

In both Canada and the UK there is also private systems available that you can decide to avail yourself off, which like the US system will charge you into bankruptcy but will give you the immediacy you desire, then you get to have a choice, wait or debt.

[jollybean]

The private systems in Canada don't offer hip replacements, they offer a narrow range of services.

Also, 80% of Canadians live a 1 hour drive to the US border.

The 'fallback' to the Canadian system - is the US system.

I don't think either systems are ideal, we need somewhat more private service in Canada, and the US needs socialized coverage of some level along with private.

The big giant social issue that nobody wants to talk about, is that the 'pyramid' in the US is so much bigger than in Canada for so many reasons. The US upper middle class are much richer than in Canada. And the poor are really poor. There are 1M undocumented workers in each of Cali and Texas - if you put them on the books, it stretches the disparity even further.

This makes it harder to impose a 'one size fits all' system.

That said - all basic HC services should be minimally covered through the state.

The number of people putting up 'Go Fund Mes' is nutty.

People are also legitimately wary of governments ability to effectively provide for services, which is a legit concern. The government can be just as corrupt and inefficient ans the private sector, and it's not nearly as easily displaced.

Finally - I would like to see the 'Walmart' of Healthcare come along and do damage to the big providers. Walmart works on a cost basis and their pricing is based around reducing cost, then adding a very small markup - which is different than other businesses. If I was President I would probably beg Walmart to literally start providing basic services.

[mardifoufs]

At least here in quebec, the private system is not allowed to provide a lot of services and cannot provide much more than basic consultation, cosmetic surgery or treatments that are more or less arbitrarily allowed by the public insurance system. Tons of people went to the state when the public system basically stopped treating anything they didn't deem to be essential for almost a year back in 2020. I know tons of US hospitals did the same, but some didn't so you at least had a choice.

Here, once the government decided that your disease, surgery or therapy wasn't "essential" you couldn't do anything at all because the private system can't do most them either. Both of my parents are nurses & according to them at one point their hospitals were almost entirely empty, but because of that arbitrary you still couldn't access most non-urgent care which was very frustrating for them.

[jollybean]

This is such an essential point, and at very least people should be suing the government over this.

That said, knowing our courts, they'll just say 'stuff it' and that's that.

[refurb]

Chaoulli v Quebec (AG) [2005] 1 S.C.R. 791, 2005 SCC 35, was a decision by the Supreme Court of Canada of which the Court ruled that the Quebec Health Insurance Act and the Hospital Insurance Act prohibiting private medical insurance in the face of long wait times violated the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v_Quebec_(AG)

[refurb]

Incorrect about Canada. Doctors are prohibited from practicing in both the public and private hospitals. There is almost no private surgery - people just go to the US.

[yason]

That's just stupid. It just makes sense to have a fast lane for paying patients because that shortens the queues to the public surgeries as well.

That works pretty well in Finland. One of my parents needed a cataract surgery this year, all cased and diagnosed by doctors in public healthcare. The actual surgery would've been maybe six months from now. Private clinic -- three weeks. My parents didn't even go shopping for another clinic, waiting three weeks was no problem. It also cost much less than they anticipated, a quick routine operation not worth the wait.