[samhain]

It’s funny too, since some of those kids may eventually realize that they were brought here without their consent, and that they don’t actually like working and paying bills. You, suffering for them, then suffering for their existence, and a death of your previous self, in which you draw yourself as a type of martyr. No one’s happy on your road to Damascus, and yet you’re faith and community demand your consent to your animalistic urges to reproduce and maintain face within your community. Having children out of guilt and peer pressure from your religious community is no excuse for their suffering.

[JohnBooty]

I don't disagree, but your post feels out of place. This Ask HN is "What is your spiritual practice?", not "Debate others' beliefs."

[MegaButts]

I think pointing out flaws in other people's reasoning is perfectly valid. You could argue the response was mean-spirited, but I actually enjoyed how well it articulated something I was thinking. Honestly I think we need more posts like the above, not fewer.

[titzer]

> I think pointing out flaws in other people's reasoning is perfectly valid.

Frankly my knee-jerk reaction on some of the above comments was to start picking apart their reasoning and thinking of ways to explain why they're wrong. I was gearing up to drop some bombs. I have done this a lot. The internet is full of it. And it sucks.

There's so much of "I'm just pointing out the flaws in other people's reasoning". It's more than just snootiness; it's exhausting for everyone, even the out-pointer and out-pointed. It saps energy and....damn it...I'm doing it right now. The end result is just a cloud of bad feelings.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could write something on the internet and people would just listen....fuuuuu...and maybe some people would agree, and you wouldn't have to have an argument? What a world!

[MegaButts]

Different people want different things. I hate when people feel that harsh criticism isn't nice. It starts to make everything feel like fluffy bullshit.

I wish HN was way, way harsher with its commentary. I understand your perspective and realize I'm outnumbered here, but basically we fundamentally disagree (and that's okay!).

I'd rather see more arguments about controversial topics from people with differing perspectives who bring data and logic to make their points. I hate that many things feel heavily censored on this site.

[titzer]

The older I get, the more I realize that endless nitpicking just sucks the joy out of life. 25 years online and I forget what life was like before every thought and attitude I or anyone ever had was raked over the coals. Constant peanut gallery. It's a chilling effect that you can't even measure. Endless criticism doesn't make everything better. It just puts everyone on edge, and it's absolutely asymmetric between those who want "fluffy bullshit" or whatever and people who can't for the life of them keep their commentary to themselves. I regret my own arguing more and more; I never feel better afterwards. Hell, I don't even like bringing this up because we gotta discuss it to death.

[JohnBooty]

     I hate when people feel that harsh criticism isn't nice

Kind of a bad-faith strawman objection, TBH. I don't see anybody saying the issue is that the post wasn't sufficiently "nice."

I'm extrapolating here, but it sounds like you may often have this misconception w.r.t. metacriticism?

IME the issue people typically have with unnecessarily "harsh" criticism -- at least in engineering circles -- is that such unnecessarily harsh criticism is often counterproductive or at least wildly unproductive. I mean, what was the desired outcome here? Is criticizing some rando's spiritual practice supposed to benefit somebody, somehow?

I'm 1,000% in favor of speaking out or better yet, acting out when folks' religious beliefs interfere with others' freedoms. But I think that pretty clearly is not what was happening here.

[JohnBooty]

The set of "valid" actions is a superset of what's actually "useful" or "good."

I'm an atheist, but for the most part I enjoyed reading others spiritual practices.

It is useful to learn about others; empathy and understanding are incredibly valuable even if one views the world from a strictly Machiavellian lens (though I hope that folks do not).

There is also much that the non-religious can learn from the religious. What I got from many posts here was a sense of the purpose, meaning, and/or serenity that many of these folks derive from their spiritual practices.

Call me crazy, but those are qualities many of us would like to enhance in our lives. I think there is much to learn from them.

[missedthecue]

It's not really pointing out flaws, it's more of a "your worldview, superimposed on my personal ethical framework, creates inconsistencies", which isn't really an insightful comment.

[Thorentis]

If we stopped having children because some of them might suffer, then the human race would cease to exist. If that is your aim, then state it plainly, rather than hiding it behind a thinly veiled attack on somebody's religion and personal sacrifices.

[kbelder]

He's presumably not anticipating having children with mental issues, and doing what he can to not instill them.

[anarticle]

You're in luck! This belief system will likely die out in a generation or two.

Or you can accept that this belief system is directly opposed to humanity itself, and expect to be treated that way.

I think saying the only reason to have children is out of guilt and peer pressure is myopic.