[tester34]

I don't think you're talking about same thing

Just because JVM or CLR are complex, then it *doesn't* mean that writting good C# / Java requires you to be proficient at CLR/JVM lvl and because of that it is hard.

>meaning a newbie devlopper can produce something halfway baked in these languages relatively quickly.

Newbie developer can produce mediocre solutions in all of those - C#, Java, C++.

The difference is that in C#/Java world it may be slow and in C++/C world it may be exploitable (more likely) <snark>.

Anyway, in my world very often it's not about internals, but about modeling skills, about OOP, testability. Those are some of the ways of measuring how good the code is.

Good system modeling skills are way above technology