[tuhin]

So essentially using a similar logic, if I am a designer, I am better off using a scripting tool to make Facebook Clone than hire a developer?

I know this comes off as an arrogant comment but I am drawing the logic straight from your arguments here.

A developer cannot design so the best option they have is to use templates of design created with no clear audience, and goal other than probably looking good (which is not in the least way what design is about).

Similarly, then if I am a designer then I should just use free scripts that let me make a social networking clone or delicious clone for my next project, right?

[nicksergeant]

I think it's a bit different coming from the other end, unfortunately. Craigslist has come quite far without what we would all consider "design" (though that's debatable - functionality is design). Alas, traditional aesthetic design has never found its way to Craigslist.

As a designer, you might find scripts / examples / tutorials that work, but without understanding the entire web stack it's going to be difficult to even get an "MVP" running. If I asked some designer friends to go set up a server to run Django, they probably wouldn't know where to start (though some would hunker down and truly figure it out, they would be the exception).

My opinion is that "decent design" is easier to achieve than "decent functionality". Don't get me wrong, I'm all for professional design and appreciate every minute that goes into it - every single app I've built over the past few years was started by an awesome designer (even my no-revenue side projects).

For the developer, though, things like http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap are helping us get very far into an app without asking designers for favors (or paying someone).

[tuhin]

FWIW I am fairly comfortable in setting up Django so despite that there are a thousand things beyond the gettting it to run. Things like DB, hell even the basic DB choice. For a current project I along with the developer (my brother) realised that we were better off using MongoDB than use MySQL for our quick random features in very near future.

Again I cannot imagine doing this without a developer. At the same time things like Product Design and User Experience (note I am not even touching User Interface- which is what ou get with templates) require a certain level of detail that are perhaps better served by a designer who does this day in day out.

It appears that the general consensus is that just getting it out there is good enough reason to call it an MVP. I think this post from 37Signals nails it down as to what happens to user experience in an MVP http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2963-what-happens-to-user-exp...

[mootothemax]

A developer cannot design so the best option they have is to use templates of design created with no clear audience, and goal other than probably looking good...

If that if the developer doesn't know what he's developing or for whom, they're in trouble ;)

[hennypenny]

If you know how to use photoshop, you can design. You can make a website that works and that you can test with.

But if a designer knows nothing about code, knowing where to start and how to put the pieces together would be daunting. Coding has a very steep learning curve, whereas even amateurs can start designing right away.

[tuhin]

If you know how to use photoshop, you can design.

Wow.

[hennypenny]

I meant that in the most general sense possible, like in the sense that if you know how to type, you can write.

No offense meant.