[lynxaegon]

>"Thanks for making me aware of this opportunity. Sounds boring. Good luck in your continuing candidate search."

Well this made my day. I usually ignore recruiters since everytime i tried telling them that i'm looking for something else, they either keep insisting to have a call or they forget about me for a few days and then start sending the same things.

I think this will be my new response for recruiters :)

[justinlloyd]

Recruiters cannot hear the word "No."

The best way to get recruiters to stop responding is:

    Thank you for making me aware of this opportunity. Before I waste your time, I have a few quick questions that I'd like answered:

    Is this fully remote? Or on-site?

    And most importantly, what is the compensation range for this position?

Pretty much shuts down the conversation completely. Ghosting. So much ghosting. I'd say an awful lot of recruiters will view you as a "difficult candidate" or "too much work" the moment you start asking about compensation.

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I've found that just telling them, up front, that I'm over 40, terminates the relationship almost immediately. They can't hang up, fast enough, and I never hear from them again.

[GameOfFrowns]

This is hilarious and depressing at the same time since, having turned 40 recently, I still hope to start a first career in software development in the near future.

[hLsvZHKd]

IMHO, there won't be a shortage of computer programmers for the next 20 years. I'm over 40 too and never experienced any issue with my grand old age. Since you seem interested by software development, I'll tell you the ultimate secret to working with computers: tutorials. That's it, there is no need to be a grand master at one specific piece of technology if you struggle with a simple script on an OS you have never worked with.

My secret is to learn and know "enough" about every OS, every language, every framework out there. Of course you're starting and you don't have either the time or experience to do everything, but do it anyway, slowly, one task at a time. Compare, study a bit, read, and have fun. Also, don't be scared, no one knows everything, you just need to know enough to be able to help (and learn at the same time).

[ChrisMarshallNY]

I wish you luck. It will be a challenge, but I love the field.

You may need to kick open a few doors. I probably could have done that, but I couldn't be arsed.

[acwan93]

I demanded a minimum compensation amount to a recruiter once at a FAANG company, something really outrageous even for FAANG. They ended up giving me non-answers saying that I still needed to interview and determine what my SWE level was going to be before they talk about compensation.

I stopped the conversation right there. That was a massive waste of time.

[justinlloyd]

We need to talk money going in, or someone is wasting my time.

    "Don't be showing up on the Ferrari dealership forecourt with a Honda budget in your pocket."

I don't generally deal with recruiters anymore. Haven't had a job through a recruiter in a long time. My last round of looking for a job (5+ months ago) I had an interview where I confirmed that the compensation would be satisfactory.

Did the interview, got an offer, and that offer was 70% less than what I was currently making. Turned the offer down.

When asked "why?" I responded "because you lied to me about the compensation. I have no interest in working for anyone that would immediately lie to me."

I will not talk to any company, and haven't for the past 15+ years, that cannot give me a very firm number in the first ten minutes. And I shut down the conversation immediately if they won't.

[acwan93]

I think up until recently I had a different mentality than what you're describing, where pay was second, but the type of work was more important. I always assumed that so long as I was satisfied with the projects, coworkers, and company/organization was something I could stand behind, pay and compensation would follow.

As I got older and more "adult" responsibilities started coming (mortgage, family planning), economic security became much more of a priority. More conventional things I learned about employee retention and organizational behavior started to make more sense where pay and time off were huge motivational factors. It's okay to be motivated by money.

[justinlloyd]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have worked on interesting things with entrepreneurs, without pay, for months at a time. Or even asked for a certain amount, and then never took any money. And I have also worked on interesting problems for far less than what even a mid-level engineer could earn at a decent company.

It isn't always about the pay, but it is often about weeding out the people who would take advantage. There is cheap, and there is poor, and for some parts of my career I have confused the two.

Much like I won't pay for something just because it is expensive, but I will often pay for the more expensive option rather than the cheaper one. Expensive doesn't always mean good, but it is a differentiator and a signalling mechanism.

I use compensation as a litmus test to determine if someone is trying to take advantage of me. If the company is trying to low-ball me, that means to me, not that they are financially cheap (though some are, and you can smell them from as far away as the dog's dinner from two nights ago), but that they believe me to be naive and exploitable. I might be an immigrant, but it doesn't mean that I stepped off the boat yesterday.

Out of all the benefits and bonuses and culture that a company has, all of which can be taken away or changed in an eye blink (Activision's purchase of Blizzard for instance) for a variety of reasons, base compensation is exceptionally hard to hand wave away. Companies that don't pay well usually have crap culture, lousy benefits and work-life balance that truly sucks. Again, for me, compensation is a signalling mechanism.

[arubania]

Did they confirm the offer _during_ your interview?

If yes, then it was a dick move and you definitely dodged a bullet.

I'm asking because I know of some cases where the salary range was listed in the job posting, but after talking to the candidate, the company decided to offer them a number that was below the lower bound, saying that the level of the candidate not enough compared to what they had in mind when they were posting the job.

[justinlloyd]

I confirmed the compensation range via email directly with the hiring manager at the company and again with HR during the initial pitch screening call. "That won't be a problem." was the response. I don't work with 3rd-party or external recruiters so it most definitely wasn't any confusion there.

Now, they might have thought "this guy isn't worth $X, let's offer him $Y" instead, but offering an exceptionally senior candidate $100K is one hell of a "we don't think you're worth it" snub. It's insulting.