[ianunruh]

Without these doomsday scenarios, it would be very hard to sell the prospect of a central world government that can override the sovereignty of every nation on Earth. Europe already fell for it, but it's going to take a lot more to get the rest of us involved.

[idiotsecant]

Yes, over time humans form larger and larger social groups as we are able to use technology and trade to form a more abstract and inclusive idea of the 'us' and reduce the 'them' outgroup. That's how it works. If you asked a bronze age libertarian your current idea of a 'nation' would be wildly antithetical to his idea of a free and sovereign tribe. As social groups get larger and larger we also get, on average, more and more peaceful and prosperous.

It's a good thing.

[ianunruh]

There's a big difference between what you've just described, and a system of unaccountable, unelected bureaucrats making decisions for billions of people. Which is exactly what the loudest climate change activists are pushing.

[barbazoo]

> Europe already fell for it

> unelected bureaucrats

I suggest you do some basic research before spewing misinformation like this next time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Pa...

[ianunruh]

Those were two separate comments, no need for accusations like that. I'm well aware that the EU has elections, but anyone can see that member states are losing their sovereignty as time goes on.

[barbazoo]

(sorry, I was being too harsh)

In what areas specifically are they losing their sovereignty though?

[ashwagary]

The legitimate arguments for Brexit are a partial answer to your question.

[yucky]

>reduce the 'them' outgroup.

Seems like we're happily creating a huge outgroup of "thems" who want to wait until Pfizer concludes long term testing. Especially seeing how many countries in Europe have now stopped giving Moderna to males under 30 due to the discovery that it causes heart conditions in that cohort.[0]

[0] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/11/10/germany-f...

[AnimalMuppet]

This is going off-topic, but: What's the track record for Moderna causing heart conditions in males over 30? Any evidence one way or the other?

[yucky]

Not sure, I suspect the reason the under 30 male cohort was singled out is because the data was only conclusive enough in that cohort. This is pretty recent though, so who knows what we'll see in future months/years.

[AnimalMuppet]

Yeah. Over 30, just had two stents put in my heart. I'm not very excited about a booster that could give me clots, or any other heart issue.

I mean, I'm not anti-vax. I got the initial shot (J&J). I just wish I knew what was the wisest next move...

[scotty79]

If a booster can give you a clot then a flu or common cold could to.

Not mentioning actual covid which you will encounter multiple times in your life if those stents are working for you.

[idiotsecant]

I think you're the only person talking about vaccines here?

[yucky]

We're discussing the eagerness of people to create outgroups out of anything.

[idiotsecant]

Seems a lot like shoehorning a cable news talking point into an unrelated conversation.

[yucky]

Interesting, I don't watch cable news so maybe that's a blind spot for me. Would you say that you haven't seen the in-group/out-group dynamic with vaccines and vaccine discussion lately?