[BLKNSLVR]

> The real question is why have we engineered our environment so unhealthy choices are so easy to make.

The combination of freedom, capitalism, and greed. This is why I can't be entirely sure that China's approach isn't potentially longer term sustainable, as much as I disagree with it - it might actually be a better way to deal with the stubborn-ness of stupidity that's so inherent to humanity (to be fair, all these traits must have served us well when Pringles and Pop Tarts weren't cheap and easily available).

Cigarettes. How did they become a thing? What, ever, was their redeeming feature? At least Pringles and Pop Tarts taste nice.

Social media is just a more-efficient distillation of what traditional media has profited from since it began. It's not new human-hacking, it's just an efficiency bump that's actually more facilitated by the internet and pocket-portable devices with access to it.

[nradov]

While cigarettes are overall quite harmful, the nicotine they contain does have certain cognitive benefits.

https://peterattiamd.com/ama23/

[WalterBright]

> The combination of freedom, capitalism, and greed.

Really? Last I heard, life expectancy in the USSR was quite a bit worse.

> Cigarettes. How did they become a thing?

Nicotine. Not hard at all to understand. Personally, I've always liked the smell of cigarettes. I never smoked, because I knew I'd really like it. Cigars, though, make me want to puke.

> deal with the stubborn-ness of stupidity that's so inherent to humanity

Most evil in the world is not perpetrated by evil people, but by good people believing they know what's best for everyone else, and forcing it on them.

[BLKNSLVR]

Life expectancy wasn't the topic, the topic was "engineered our environment so unhealthy choices are so easy to make." and I stand by my answer. No specific judgement either, just cause and effect.

> believing they know what's best for everyone else, and forcing it on them.

Agree, to an extent. Forcing things on people is required of a functioning society. Government and laws and whatnot.

I genuinely don't know where the lines should be drawn on the entire spectrum. Law of unintended consequences and all that.

[WalterBright]

> Forcing things on people is required of a functioning society.

The government's proper role is to prevent people from using force on each other. It is not forcing things that the government imagines are good for people on them.

For example, I believed for decades the advice from the government that margarine was better for me than eggs. That turned out to be backwards.

[BLKNSLVR]

> The government's proper role is to prevent people from using force on each other. It is not forcing things that the government imagines are good for people on them.

I don't think you can necessarily separate those two things from one another so simply, except in the most extreme of examples.

> For example, I believed for decades the advice from the government that margarine was better for me than eggs. That turned out to be backwards.

I'm just going to assume you chose a bad example here. There's no force at play, you're free to choose your thing, you can even have both at the same time. Freedom!

[WalterBright]

1. there are always gray areas, that doesn't invalidate the principle

2. not a bad example - what if the government forced me to use margarine instead, secure it its rectitude? That's the point.

[Turing_Machine]

> Nicotine. Not hard at all to understand.

Also monoamine oxidase inhibitors, a class of compounds that are effective against depression, panic disorder, and social phobia.

Some think that the absence of the MAO inhibitors are why nicotine replacement therapies (gum, patches) aren't really all that great at getting people to stop smoking.

[adrianN]

Was life expectancy in eastern block states worse if you correct for wealth? They had pretty good doctors as far as I know.

[WalterBright]

> Was life expectancy in eastern block states worse if you correct for wealth?

I don't know. But I do know that people were much worse off economically in the USSR than in the US. This impacts longevity.

> They had pretty good doctors as far as I know.

I recall reading in a thread on Chernobyl where people who lived there at the time of the disaster were commenting. One comment stood out - root canals were free, but there was no anesthetic available. Having had a root canal myself, I can't imagine sitting in that chair for several hours getting drilled without anesthetic.