[indymike]

> They're going to have dedicated video output cards that would not be affected by this. Those cards are specifically for having 100% control over the output.

Um, no, how about the built in one worked fine, didn't require me to buy a very expensive additional piece of hardware. This change took away functionality that worked before the upgrade?

> let's not start with the idea that pros are outputting directly from their computers without the right hardware.

If professional means derives income from work, you would be wrong. If pro means works for an organization with unlimited budget, you would be right.

[dkonofalski]

>built in one worked fine

It had the same problem that it still has. The OS can place items on the display that you don't want in the middle of a presentation/performance. The only thing that "worked fine before" is that you were ok with what the OS put there because it was rare for that to happen.

>If professional means

It means that a dot in the upper right hand corner makes the function "unusable". If that's the case, then a professional would not extend/mirror a desktop display. They make sure that they control exactly what is being displayed and you can't (and have never been able to) do that with macOS.

[Dylan16807]

> It had the same problem that it still has.

It's not reasonable to say it's the "same" problem when they changed it this much.

> The only thing that "worked fine before" is that you were ok with what the OS put there because it was rare for that to happen.

So rare it may have never happened. So yes, it did work fine. Are you implying that's wrong? There's no way to make a bulletproof setup, after all. Maybe with an external device you get a glitched or blank screen instead of a notification, but any hardware or software could fail. Possible chance of failure is not the same as a constant 100% chance problem, and does not excuse a constant 100% problem.

[dkonofalski]

>they changed it this much.

They didn't change it much. They added an indicator to the existing OS UI when a recording device is active. That's the only change that was made. As I've said elsewhere here, they could have added anything to the UI in the past and it would have had the same effect. People just didn't care because that stuff didn't affect them.

>There's no way to make a bulletproof setup, after all.

No one is saying it needs to be bulletproof. If it did and that's important to your production, you'd have backups to switch over to immediately. You're taking what I'm saying out of context and arguing straw men. If a small dot on the screen makes things "unusable" for you, then your setup is wrong. If anything that you don't want on the screen that you didn't put there is important for you, then you need to create your setup to function like that and allow for that.

All I'm saying is that there are people all over here, professionals or otherwise, who claim that a small dot on the screen is a dealbreaker for their ability to do their jobs. If that's the case, then they've been leaving their livelihoods up to chance because every OS has the ability to display things on an external display on top of a full-screen application. I'm glad some people were lucky enough for that not to happen but people whose livelihoods depend on that don't leave those things to luck.

[Dylan16807]

> They didn't change it much.

They changed the percentage of time you have an OS overlay on the screen drastically. That's the metric I was using.

> No one is saying it needs to be bulletproof.

When you accuse people in situations where the dot matters of "leaving their livelihoods up to chance" for using normal output, you basically are saying that the notification-stopping part of the system has to be bulletproof. Swap 'bulletproof' with 'nigh-perfect, far in excess of all the other parts of the system' if you want.

And no, that's not going "by their own logic" or anything. Refusing to accept a constant dot in the corner does not mean a single notification would ruin their career.

[indymike]

>>If professional means

>It means that a dot in the upper right hand corner makes the function "unusable".

I'm pretty sure professional has nothing to do with dots in the corner. There's really not much to defend about this change, and this change really reduces the utility of macbooks for many people who derive their income from work using that macbook. Hopefully, apple gets the message from users and fixes it.

[dkonofalski]

>I'm pretty sure professional has nothing to do with dots in the corner.

It absolutely does in terms of this conversation thread since that's what the topic of discussion is.

>really not much to defend about this change

Yes, there is. It makes the vast majority of Mac users aware of when their input device is activated in situations where they may not know.

>reduces the utility of macbooks for many people who derive their income from work using that macbook

It absolutely does not. It only affects the very small portion of users for whom the dot is a dealbreaker, that have to capture audio while presenting, that are not technical enough to follow the steps to remove the dot, and that also have never cared before about the OS being able to render chrome on their work/display output.