[cycomanic]

By that definition if I change the layout of my website and observe if it changes how humans change their behaviour, i.e. how and where they click it's human research. With that definition pretty much everything is human research. Well even if I track where rubbish is being transported to it is observing human behaviour and thus human research.

It remains also hypocritical. If you (not you personally but in general) are outraged by this research as unethical and you are working for companies who do any optimisation of their ads/engagement etc., you are contributing to the same (and arguably much worse) behaviour that you condem as unethical. I call complaining in others about something that you do yourself on an often much larger scale hypocrisy.

[gnud]

When you study how humans react to changes to a website, you study the behavior of the visitors to the website.

When you study where rubbish is being transported to, you study a system designed by humans.

There's an obvious difference.

Also, I think most of optimisation of ads/engagement is plain unethical. So there's no hypocrisy on my part.

[shkkmo]

> I call complaining in others about something that you do yourself on an often much larger scale hypocrisy.

The assumption that everyone complaining about this works in adtech or even does A/B testing is ridiculous. HN has a very strong contingent of people who are antagonistic to that entire field so making such a generalization is absolutely false.

I would point out that A/B testing minor changes without consent is a little creepy, deceiving your users in the process (by say changing pricing measure on them) makes it far more creepy. If you add bogus legal intimidation (or other language designed to elicit a strong emotional response) to that, it becomes creepy on a whole different scale.

[SilasX]

If you’ll recall, Facebook did take a lot of flack for changing newsfeed content for users to see what behavioral changes it would induce.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/02/facebook-...

[azernik]

The nub there is not the definition of "involving human subjects", but the definition of "research".

By the relevant federal regulations (https://irb.ufl.edu/index/humanrsch.html)

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(l) Research means a systematic investigation, including research development, testing, and evaluation, designed to develop or contribute to generalizable knowledge. Activities that meet this definition constitute research for purposes of this policy, whether or not they are conducted or supported under a program that is considered research for other purposes. For example, some demonstration and service programs may include research activities.

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This is a good overview: https://irb.ufl.edu/index/humanrsch.html