[AdrianB1]

This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.

[GavinMcG]

Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/

[belorn]

The study do highlight some conditions. Means restriction is mostly effective when the suicide method is common and highly lethal, its more effective in reducing suicide for women then for men, and when the specific means restriction need to be culturally supported. The specific method also need to be popularly known among the population.

Import note that the study does actually not compare alternative suicide-prevention strategies. It is a meta study of mean restriction and not a meta study of suicide-prevention strategies. It does not compare the effectiveness of healthcare, reducing risk factors, hotlines and others suicide-prevention strategies.

[derbOac]

I think the point is, does removing fans make someone less depressed in the long run, or increase their quality of life?

If someone still wants to kill themselves, but cannot because all means have been eliminated, have you solved any problems?

I'm honestly not sure that I'd argue it doesn't increase quality of life, but using suicide prevention as an outcome seems superficial to me.

[GavinMcG]

Well you've solved the immediate problem of having zero further opportunity to solve the underlying problem (because they're dead).

One point made in the linked article is that identifying risk in individuals isn't something we've found a good way to do. If we know who needs help, helping them is better than removing a fan. But we usually don't know who needs help, despite a variety of sensible-seeming approaches to figuring it out.

There's still an argument that aside from the individual level, we should address things at the societal level: what socioeconomic forces contribute to people being in tough situations where suicide seems like the only way out, and how can we change those socioeconomic forces?

That's a great question and a great place to focus our energy. And, while we're working on changing the world in bigger ways, we can make it a safer place.

[salawat]

Means restriction is an effective way of preventing a lot of things. To the point we have phrases like "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

Food for thought.

[GavinMcG]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You seem to be hinting at something, rather than being direct, but it's not clear what you're hinting at.

[salawat]

It's trivial to take the direct approach of "Let's just treat the symptom."

Symptoms are caused by underlying disease. If you have people killing themselves in excessive numbers, one should not look at the means they employed as the problem. Doing so, is having a hammer, therefore the nail (removal of the offending thing, in this case the instrument of suicide.)

Treat. The. Disease. Why are they suicidal?

Overly high standards/expectation? High stress? Corrupt systems? Social stigma? Failure to teach/communicate/cross cultural divides? Miscalibrated assessment methodologies? Lack of opportunity or alternatives in the face of failure? Physical stressors? Bad nutrition, poor food, unsafe environment?

To stop at "just get rid of offensive thing" in this particular case is to indulge in willful ignorance of the root cause of suicidal ideation; the final conclusive cessation of suffering. What is causing them to suffer?

Relieve that. Engage in 2nd and higher order thinking.

[GavinMcG]

> To stop at

Who said anything about stopping? Building a better, healthier society is a massive undertaking, and people are engaged in doing that.

In the meantime, we're also making the world a bit safer.

[AdrianB1]

I am not convinced it is as effective as pretended, otherwise the Mapo Bridge in Seoul would be razed and the Aokigahara Forest in Japan would be fenced with barbed wire.