[MengerSponge]

We know what happens. Educational outcomes drop. There's a strong bloc of hard-right ultra-religious conservatives who don't care if Jonnie or Jayden or whatever learns how to read or add, and they really don't want Kayden or Charlotte or whatever to learn any biology or autonomy.

They vote with their vouchers for truly terrible schools. It siphons a tremendous amount of money from "traditional" public schools and delivers a hugely negative return.

It's a mistake, but it's a mistake we can't help but keep making because we're so determined to make everything function like a pseudo market.

[mannerheim]

Is there any empirical evidence for educational outcomes dropping? The ultra-religious types would be homeschooling with or without the financial incentives to send children to private schools.

[MengerSponge]

Vouchers don't improve student achievement (Stanford, 2017) https://news.stanford.edu/2017/02/28/vouchers-not-improve-st...

Students in Louisiana's voucher program showed a decline in scores, especially math: https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/education/artic...

Not every hard-right ultra-religious parent has the means to homeschool their kid or to enroll them in private school. Vouchers really help lower that barrier.

[mannerheim]

> Vouchers don't improve student achievement (Stanford, 2017)

So not worse, then.

> Students in Louisiana's voucher program showed a decline in scores, especially math:

Let's see...

> Any changes in the second year of reading were unclear.

Hmm.

> Past research on Louisiana’s school-voucher program came to a bleak conclusion: Students who used the program to transfer to a private school saw their test scores plummet.

> A new study complicates that narrative, finding some good—or at least, less bad—news about the closely watched program.

> The research shows that, for students who received a voucher at the middle or end of elementary school, there were no statistically significant effects on their math or reading test scores by the third year in the program. That’s a boon for voucher advocates who have argued against judging a program by its initial impacts.

> The research shows that, for students who received a voucher at the middle or end of elementary school, there were no statistically significant effects on their math or reading test scores by the third year in the program. That’s a boon for voucher advocates who have argued against judging a program by its initial impacts.

They deliberately cut the results off in the second year because the study was conducted by those whose livelihoods are threatened by vouchers.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/532137/

[MengerSponge]

So at best it's net neutral in educational outcomes, with increased administrative costs? Neat. Sounds like a great policy.

What evidence is there that vouchers are helpful?

Who benefits? (the answer here isn't "everybody")

[bitshiftfaced]

> What evidence is there that vouchers are helpful?

> Who benefits? (the answer here isn't "everybody")

In areas that have done charter schools, the result is that poor-performing school administrations/companies (in terms of standardized tests) lose their charter and effectively "close down." Better performing ones are allowed to replace them.

The students benefit because they end up with better quality educations. They're no longer forced to go to terrible schools that keep getting money thrown at them despite having deeply-rooted problems: problems that the school has no incentive to fix due to the way the current public schooling system works.

[MengerSponge]

Charters aren't vouchers. They've got their own issues, but they're a fundamentally different tool.

> The students benefit because they end up with better quality educations.

Citation needed. In fact, in many cases, students end up worse off.

[notadev]

I benefit by sending my child to a school where the teachers are incentivized to teach them reading, writing, and arithmetic, while leaving their politics and activism at the door.

[mannerheim]

> What evidence is there that vouchers are helpful?

> James also said that school choice has “not proven effective at improving education.” That is also highly misleading. Ten of the 16 random assignment evaluations on the topic find that private school choice programs increased math or reading test scores overall or for student subgroups at a fraction of the cost. Only two of the 16 random assignment studies, both of which examined the highly regulated Louisiana voucher program, found negative effects on test scores. And four of the six rigorous studies on the topic found that private school choice increased educational attainment overall or for student subgroups. None of the six studies found that school choice reduced educational attainment.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/setting-record-straight-scho...

> Who benefits? (the answer here isn't "everybody")

Of course not everybody. Public school teachers and administrators will suffer tremendously should school choice be more widely adopted.