[DarylZero]

> eg California would be near the top of that list, and yet here we are stuck with a democratic governor who vetoed the legislation which would have allowed general law cities to use alternative voting systems

So a Democratic majority state legislature _passed_ this legislation?

And the veto proves that it's not what Democrats _really_ want?

[supreme_loquat]

I don't think I wrote that all democrats didn't want to fix this, it was simply an illustration that there are plenty of democrats that don't want to fix it or don't care enough to do so. You have to consider that CA could have passed this long ago, it's not like this was their first chance. The fact that it took them so long in the first place to even consider it doesn't speak great things about them. There's also the recall election, they could have run someone better if this was what they were really prioritizing but that clearly isn't the case. There's also plenty of charter cities that could adopt better methods that are likely democrat strongholds and they've also sat around for the most part (although there's obviously exceptions like the SF area, where interestingly enough Newsom also tried to stop it but failed).

edit: although really I hope all you took away isn't just that I don't like democrats. I don't like anyone against fixing the voting methods be they democrat, republican, green, libertarian, independent, or any other category I failed to mention. I just pointed out democrats because supposedly they are the majority in CA and like to claim that they support a healthy democracy. In the same way, I'm happy to work with (just about) anyone who wants to fix the voting system and hope they will make their voice heard. I think it is perhaps the most important thing we need to fix right now, and is one of the main criteria I personally look at when voting for officials.

[DarylZero]

> an illustration that there are plenty of democrats that don't want to fix it or don't care enough to do so

I think you could make an even stronger statement: the majority of Democrats probably aren't even aware of the issue.

It's not a popular issue, and not the kind of thing that Democratic politicians can use to inspire people to vote.

[supreme_loquat]

Not sure I'm convinced. They'd have to have their heads totally buried in the sand to not know it's a problem, and as the saying goes, it is difficult to get someone to understand something when their salary depends upon not understanding it. If it makes it potentially harder for a democrat to get elected, why would they want to support it? That's one of the reasons I consider voting reform so important since it shows a critically severe character flaw if they aren't willing to risk losing their power.

It's not like Newsom is some outlier, just a year ago in San Diego there was an initiative to try and put IRV on the ballot so that the people of San Diego could vote on whether they wanted it or not. The initiative to put it on the ballot failed, only 2/6 democrats in the city council voted in favor of it. 1/2 republicans were in favor and the independent was in favor.

My personal theory is that if there's a strong majority, then the party on top would not be in favor of it. Hopefully we can break the cycle but it's a hard problem when the people most incentivized to vote for it are already the most marginalized.