Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by Manuel_D 1647 days ago
So out of thousands of protesters, three were armed and none of which used their weapons during the supposed insurrection. As per your own definition, an insurrection is made "for the specific purpose of overthrowing the constituted government and seizing its powers". How does occupying the Capitol building translate into controlling the government? Are the military, the IRS, and all the other government institutions are just going to say, "Well, guess we're going to do what the shaman in the fur outfit says"?

I get that "there were no guns" is technically wrong, but ultimately you're demonstrating the above commenter's point. This mob at the capitol had zero chance of effecting any real political change, and had no real or tangible plan of seizing the government. It wasn't an insurrection any more than CHAZ was. Arguably the latter fits the bill even better: they drove out the government law enforcement, replaced it with their own security forces, and maintained independence for 3 weeks. The capitol rioters were driven out in 3 hours.

3 comments

> had no real or tangible plan of seizing the government

The degree of detachment from reality is awesome.

They had a plan, and it was clear and public. Lets see:

We are talking of people breaking in the capitol, smashing windows and doors

while shouting: "Lets find and kill the Vice president of USA"

"And also the president of the chamber of representatives of USA"

"And lets stop the new president of USA taking power".

Nope, they don't really wanted to seize the US government, Just to behead it. Just to gain control by force changing the President, Vice-president and President of the chamber. You don't need to seize anything after this, the entire chain of power is yours. You own the whole building from this point on.

It doesn't matter if 99% of the people in the group was clueless and pure as a lamb. You just need to hide a single 'Bruto' among them to be successful. The fact is that the plan failed because all the politicians in the room were evacuated.

> So out of thousands of protesters, three were armed

Many were armed only four (one based on substantial investigation after his initial arrest and subsequent initial indictment) have been charged with firearms offenses; most of those in solved were not arrested and searched on site, but later based on video evidence, witness testimony, and other evidence. (Assuming I’m not missing more, the summary page presentation is not consistent in how offenses are described, and I haven't dug in and reviewed each of the detailed supporting document for each defendant.)

> How does occupying the Capitol building translate into controlling the government?

The specific plan was to use threats and violence to, in order of preference:

One, convince the Vice President to as Trump had publicly advocated and Pence had publicly indicated he would not, refuse to open certain electoral votes, ask Trump-friendly state legislatures to “recertify” them, so that those legislatures would replace the publicly elected slate of Biden electors from their states with legislatively elected Trump electors, or:

Two, render the Vice President, if he remained obstinate in his refusals of participation in the auto-coup that Trump had publicly called for, and any similarly uncooperative successors, incapable of presiding (the chant “Hang Mike Pence”, and the gallows constructed for that purpose, indicating the method of incapacitation planned) so that an official on board with the plan would take over the gavel and act as described.

The successful evacuation of members prevented the plan from working, but that was the not-very-secret plan.

>> three were armed

Only one person was found with a gun on capitol grounds and not in the capitol.

So there were no known guns inside the capitol.

> Lonnie Coffman had the gun in his vehicle.

> Guy Refitt is being charged based on his son's testimony but claims he did not have it on him https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/capitol-riot...

It's literally sensationalism, inflating statistically insignificant facts in order to futher a narrative.