[RandomLensman]

That still does not explain why such identity beliefs appear to be spreading. My own hypothesis is that most things are now too complex for most people, i.e., how things work is largely "magic". This then might allow people to actually belief a lot more things as a lot of how the real world works is already untethered from reality for them.

[soco]

Look around: social media is pervasive and most (all?) of its goals are to propagate conflicting views, as they are the one bringing the holy click. Division is a logical consequence of that and no social media company feels at all responsible. Yeah one can (and not wrongly) blame the human nature but so far we've been able to enact laws to protect us against some other human nature shortcomings - we call them "crimes".

[RandomLensman]

Conflicting belief systems and views with massive real world consequences far predate current social media, hence I struggle with the idea of social media being the sole causal agent/accelerant. And social media also do seem to impact different societies differently. On top, the US has had a real world "violence problem" for a long time (even compared to societies with similar levels of gun ownership), i.e., I would not discount specific societal factors.

[soco]

The "sole" - that's what nobody said.

[RandomLensman]

Fair enough: should have said "strongly relevant" instead

[fallingknife]

That has been the case since the industrial revolution, though. My theory is that political affiliation has taken the place of religion. Particularly on the left, but you can see a lot of it happening on the right now too since Christianity has declined in influence in the Republican party.

[collaborative]

Spot on. At the end of the day it's a lot less harmful to worship an invisible being than an idealised visible entity

[fallingknife]

I think you may be on to something here. But I think that in terms of US politics, the stabilizing factor was that, until recently, both parties shared the same religion. Even up to the 90's, being Christian was very much a requirement for Democratic presidential candidates.

[DarylZero]

How is it not now? Dems never nominated a non-Christian candidate for Pres.

[emteycz]

Hard disagree. The visible entity is still human, and can be wrong, even if it takes a lot to recognize it. God's can't be wrong whatever they do, however inhuman it is.

[bellyfullofbac]

As a leftie, but who can't relate to the many demands they now have (e.g. cancel culture), did Christianity influence the GOP? Or is it more the GOP saying "We are Christians" and what "Christianity" means to them is whatever they say it is?

[fallingknife]

I think it used to be the former, and is now more like the latter. And I think that as Christianity, independent of the GOP, continues to be less of a political force, you will see a brand of Republican religion without reference to Christianity. I think the beginnings of this can be seen in the purging of Liz Cheney, who, until very recently, was a canonical Republican. Now it is basically heretical in the Republican party to go against Trump. Also Trump is the first Republican presidential candidate that I can remember who didn't make a show out of his Christian faith, and didn't seem to be hurt by it.

[DarylZero]

But he still kind of did just by choosing Mike Pence as VP.

[AnimalMuppet]

And Trump is a perfect demonstration of a political party having "religious zeal" unanchored to a religion. He's close to a God figure to some people. Those people and Christians really need to be in separate political parties.

[RandomLensman]

Not sure that is totally true since the industrial revolution. 50 years ago when learning how to drive there was a lot of learning on how a car works, for example. That is completely gone now.

[jrumbut]

I don't quite understand this argument. Our ancestors were able to get themselves very polarized in their (technologically) simpler times. They believed really wild and counterproductive things too.

We have increased in our polarization compared to 25 years ago, but compared to the many civil wars across time and space we aren't so bad (yet we are at peak incomprehensibility).

[RandomLensman]

Exactly, and in those simpler times a lot of things where indeed pretty much assumed to be Devine/magic etc. Back then things where also very incomprehensible otherwise.

So my point is we are going back to that stage after a short "interregnum" where the machines in our daily lives where somewhat more comprehensible.

[jhanschoo]

As someone from outside the US, the US seems to have a particularly bad case of identity beliefs. Will you test your hypothesis against other developed nations and see how much of it is explained by the current trajectory of US's national culture and politics and how much is explained by fundamental environmental complexity?

[bellyfullofbac]

> why such identity beliefs appear to be spreading

There's a loneliness epidemic (even before the *-demic words became used for something else...), my theory is that lonely people were looking for a tribe to feel a sense of belonging and found political tribes to be one.

It also seems to me people take a lot of political positions not because they believe it, but because "the other side" takes the opposing view. Anything the "enemy" likes, I don't support. But the root cause would be to find that sense of belonging. Or it'd be because of insecurity: if I think the other side have idiotic opinions, I can walk around having the smug feeling of supremacy, and hey, at least I feel better, right?

It's the same issue with second generation Muslim migrants in Western Europe who feel "lost" and then found Jihad, they'd start as troubled youths who were shoplifters, who end up in jail, find the charismatic hate-preacher/Imam there and then are inspired and find their lives' cause, which is sadly Jihad. IMO white supremacist terrorists go through the same motions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlbirlSA-dc or a text that's the same idea (by the same guy): https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/jul/19...

[miedpo]

I'd agree with this. I've met many people who have identities and can get along with people just fine. However, when we identify as enemies of other people, things tend to go a bit haywire.