[34679]

What's wrong with being honest? If you need a break, say so. Why is that so hard? If your employer won't allow you to take the amount of breaks you need, then you and your employer are not compatible. You are faced with the task of finding a less demanding employer and your employer is faced with the task of finding a higher performing employee. Either party may be forced to modify their behavior until they obtain their desired level of stability, but only if people are honest about what's going on. Lying, stealing, and pretending a problem doesn't exist will not make it go away.

[gopher_space]

You've established a frictionless work environment with perfectly spherical employers and employees in your head. You have the base model down but it's an abstraction with no ties to reality.

You won't be able to think about the subject accurately until you get more experience under your belt. People generally learn the answer to "what's wrong with being honest" on the job.

[34679]

That's insane. The only thing I've established is that people shouldn't spend half an hour kicking it on the couch while expecting to get paid. Anyone who does expect to be paid for that time and uses software to make it seem like they were working is a liar guilty of theft.

Notice that I've not commented on things like bathroom breaks. I specifically pointed out the example of defrauding a client or employer for relatively large blocks of time.

My first job was in 1995. Even then I knew it would be wrong to put an inaccurate time on the timecard for my benefit.

[gopher_space]

You haven't addressed internal motivation or external drag in your model. There's always an answer to the "why don't they just.." kind of questions, and if your model doesn't encompass those it won't be useful.

> Anyone who does expect to be paid for that time and uses software to make it seem like they were working is a liar guilty of theft.

Automating systems to hit a specific metric is like most of HN's livelihood. If the work is getting done why does it matter how easy they've made it?

[lazide]

So you’re saying everyone who has sat there reading a magazine during quiet times with no customers instead of immediately finding something else to do, but didn’t call that out is a liar and a thief?

If so, most every retail worker probably qualifies. As does everyone else, if they’re being honest with themselves. Or it’s not a realistic standard at all.

How is the burnout doing?

[lazide]

As noted by another comment, that just isn’t realistic or how society or workplaces work in general.

There is a large power imbalance (real or imagined) in a workplace. Employers can, have, and will continue to fire employees (or push them out illegally where it isn’t legal) for such offenses as being sick at times that are inconvenient for the boss, or having family issues (or trying to have a realistic balance of family life - aka not just work 24/7), or just not LOOKING like they are working hard, regardless of actual impact or output. Or, not having the right ‘vibe’.

If someone is dependent on the employer for their income, it behooves them to fit in - at least until they can find something better, which also takes time and energy.

And when problems are overwhelming or don’t have actual solutions someone can apply (due to lack of support, resources, or knowledge they possess), and you’ll get fired for showing any sign of a problem? What else is someone supposed to do?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s ok - ideally someone would be able to respectfully and responsibly address all issues and work through to solutions. But that is hard and only a small portion of people can do that for everything.

Those people tend to eventually end up in high positions, until the degree of stress and problems they get puts them at an equilibrium point with their ability to ‘deal’. Meaning they can’t go higher (or they pawn the problems off on someone else, meaning they have less directly on their plate).

Also, some folks resort to drugs, prescription, or self-medicating. We’re surrounded by it - everything from megadoses of ibuprofen every day to deal with severe muscle pain, to anti-psychotics and anti-depressants at ever more increasing percentage of the population. Some of this may be due to a mid-fit of society and what makes us happy, some may be other things. But who knows.