[thom]

Is that clear from the text? Gurgeh supposedly perceives the result of the last game before the AIs so we’re led to believe he’s seeing deeper. Obviously he could have been wrong and still won. The AIs lied to and manipulated him the entire time so it’s hard to know, but it would seem a very odd weakness for an AI to have. I think Banks pretty quickly recanted on the subject of the Culture’s ‘referrers’ but I don’t think he plays a full Mind, so it’s not a clear cut conversation.

[joshuamorton]

My recollection is that by the end of the novel its clear that Gurgeh was never competitive with the ship, although he might have been competitive with his security drone (although even that isn't clear, since <spoilers> imply that the security drone is a better game player than it pretends to be).

To me it felt like the whole point of the novel was that Gurgeh was a piece in an even larger game and he didn't even realize it. So the idea that the people playing the "bigger" game couldn't compete in the smaller game seems silly, and I think they mention that they used Gurgeh instead of an AI to make it appear fair to the inhabitants of the planet.

[hesperiidae]

I agree with you that Gurgeh was just a piece getting manipulated and that that was the point, but Gurgeh was still the best piece that they could use for the job.

The Culture is (in this story) pretty much only bound by their own constraints. They chose Gurgeh for the role, since he had enough skill and talent to actually be able to accomplish the Culture's (or the SC's, winkwink) objectives without having the whole thing being taken over by an AI.

The Culture worked very much like the PoG this thread is about: it minimised potential loss and considered the constraints it had to get the best possible outcome.

The Culture is mostly constrained by only ethical rules, which, admittedly, can get flexible, especially with regards to the SC. The practical restrictions, like it being easier to send one capable human than to conquer a small galaxy, are in my mind lesser in comparison.

As such, I think they got the most out of the operation, just by being confident in their assessment of a single human who played games good. And there's absolutely no reason to believe that the overminds that guide the Culture can't model human behaviour down to the smallest variable, especially considering how augmented humans are in the Culture.

I'm also 100% onboard the idea that all the drones could outplay Gurgeh in a blink in any game, intuition be damned.

[randomswede]

A non-drone player was necessary, as Azad would never have acknowledged defeat by a drone. But, defeat by a human accomplished the Culture's goal and Gurgeh was the best bet (or at least the best available one) on the desired outcome.

I see their selection as mostly being about Gurgeh having enough pride to accept the small cheat, coupled with enough skill to not actually need the AI assistance. It's been a while since I read TPoG last, but my recollection is that there were a handful of players at essentially the same level as Gurgeh and from a pure skill and intuition level, I suspect any of them would have worked, but only Gurgeh fell for the entrapment.

[sdenton4]

Yeah, I thought it was clear from the beginning of the book that no humans were even remotely competitive with any AI (including the main character) but that human game players were sort of an aesthetic throwback, like dog-racing in an era of F1 cars.

[7thaccount]

This was my understanding as well, but I might have read into it. The culture minds are in freaking hyperspace to get around lightspeed limitations on computations. He for sure can't beat that, but he could beat someone on another planet at their own game that he literally just learned in the year it took to get there. A game that permeates every aspect of their civilization.

I do assume his drone could beat him as well, but I'm not sure.

[randomswede]

One of the reasons that Contact (and Special Circumstances) have (some) humans[] around is for intuitive leaps. I can't say I recall which Culture book this is mentioned in, but it is, in one of them.

[] let's go with "human" as a general term for Culture biological citizens, it is probably a bit incorrect, but gets the point across.

[thom]

The 'referers' are in Consider Phlebas, a small group of humans among trillions who are able to reliably predict the future better than Minds. This would be one argument in Gurgeh's favour, but Banks later admitted how flimsy the idea was.

[OneTimePetes]

Remember the "ambassador" aka Zakalwe? They had boots on the ground and even set up interactions to prevent him getting to friendly/embedded with the "host" culture.

The whole thing was about to blow up anyway, so they brought in the Player of Games, to do it in a style that would prevent any recovery. Gurgeh was not there to defeat the empire, he was there to defeat the whole idea of the game being "holy".

He was the Jesse Owen shipped to hitlers olympics.

[7thaccount]

Yeah, of course the culture could just obliterate the empire militarily. I think only a few civilizations (pre ascension) could hold their own for awhile.

You bring up a good point about shattering the view of the game though.