[creamytaco]

Python is terrible at juggling files, setting up pipelines and working with processes. The resulting code is more complicated than the equivalent bash, not to mention longer, and hidden gotchas abound (subprocess deadlocks anyone?). I'll take 50 lines of bash instead of 200+ lines of Python.

[ilyash]

Welcome to (shameless plug) Next Generation Shell. It's a modern programming language for DevOps. It is both concise for running external programs (uses small subset of bash syntax) and it is a "real" programming language with data structures and sane error handling among other things.

Compared to general purpose programming languages, it was built for "DevOps"y use cases in mind. See https://github.com/ngs-lang/ngs/wiki/Use-Cases

Ability to run external programs is high on the priorities list. In NGS it means having its own short syntax and handling exit codes among other things. NGS throws exceptions on "bad" exit codes. Hint: not for all tools non zero exit code is "bad". Did not see equivalent exit code handling anywhere else.

Compared to bash... It's not fair comparison even. Another era, another reality, other expectations. Small example: When APIs return structured data, well... you better be able to handle it. See https://ilya-sher.org/2018/09/10/jq-is-a-symptom/

Compared to other modern shells, I would say, NGS is programming language first as opposed to shell first.

[acdha]

This has only been true for the smallest shell scripts in my experience: bash will be less code at first but once you to be portable, handle errors, locking, unicode, buffer or process output, perform non-trivial redirections, or need any data structure more complicated than a simple string it's been pretty common to replace hundreds of lines of spaghetti bash with less Python even after you add comments and a proper CLI interface.

I've never had subprocess deadlock — was this on Windows?

[patrick451]

> I've never had subprocess deadlock — was this on Windows?

I've seen this happen seemingly randomly in linux trying to pipe the stdout of one subprocess into the stdin of another.

[acdha]

Interesting, I've never had that happen in heavy usage. I've had cases where the called processes blocked for some reason but that was solved by adding a timeout.

[mateo411]

How does a subprocess deadlock happen in Python? Why would this be specific to Python, and not caused by deadlock in general?

I agree that 50 lines of bash is generally more maintainable than 200 lines of Python.