[pokoleo]

Once as a new grad I asked (after he gave a talk on the virtues of oss) why the newly released Wolfram language wasn’t open source.

He called me naïve, said that my question was childish, then asked for the next question.

If dunking on a 23 year old makes him feel good about himself, so be it. I couldn’t imagine working anywhere near him.

I wonder what he does behind closed doors.

[jeffrallen]

> I wonder what he does behind closed doors

I agree, but the fact he's attracted a brilliant team to him and kept his company stable and productive for decades means he's doing something right.

He's a mystery I've been wondering about since forever.

[ramraj07]

On the contrary I wonder what he would have been capable of if he was not such a doucherocket. Man’s clearly a genius but how much? Could he have taken a real crack at AGI instead of homework helper pro?

[westoncb]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but this reads to me like you were trying to get a rise out of him and succeeded... it's posing a question that includes the assertion that he's hypocrite (talk on oss virtues -> own software not oss) live in front of an audience.

[joshuamorton]

Asking about a perceived inconsistency isn't always "trying to get a rise out of someone". It's absolutely wild to me that people are saying that posing this question is implicitly bad faith, or trying to "humiliate" Wolfram or whatever.

And like, while I generally think OSS == good, there's lots of software that I think doesn't need to be (or even shouldn't be) OSS, but I have coherent reasons for that.

[ren_engineer]

insults aren't an argument, if Wolfram doesn't want to get called out for being a hypocrite a good solution is to not be a hypocrite. The fact Wolfram had no actual answer beyond an insult and dodging the question is pretty telling

[deltaonefour]

Insults are justified if some dick is asking a question trying to get a rise out of him. There is ZERO need to answer questions of that nature.

As self absorbed as wolfrsam is it's obvious what's going on. There is NOTHING hypocritical about it. He wants to profit off of his own wolfram language. But at the same time he appreciates the ideals, benefits and other great things that come out of OSS.

It's like the video game industry. Let me put it this way, if Closed source didn't exist video games at the triple A level likely wouldn't exist. If open source didn't exist, linux likely wouldn't exist either. Both are good.

But I don't have to explain this to you. We all are aware of this on some level. Everyone and I mean everyone literally knows what I just said.

Wolfram talking about the good parts of OSS doesn't justify some ass hole from the audience subtly trying to call him a hypocrite with a targeted question like that because BOTH closed source and open source are good. Wolframs response was justified there was no need for him to spend extra time explaining something that's totally obvious to someone who not only already knows the answer but is only asking the question for nefarious reasons.

[harry8]

Well he could answer with whatever his reasoning is that may or may not align with the things you suggest. People take that seriously, including me.

Or he could be rude and all I hear is "because I'm a hypocrite and not a great guy."

You can answer to justify your decisions without being a jerk. Even if it's a jerk trying to get a rise out of you who does it. If you're the honored guest speaker with everyone competing to kiss your wealthy, famous backside your jerkdom isn't really equivalent to a student asking what appears to be a stunningly obvious question that we don't even know how it was phrased.

But maybe I'm so naieve to have seen people respond in a reasonable way to aggressive questions from the floor often enough makes me think it's the right way to go.

[deltaonefour]

> Well he could answer with whatever his reasoning is that may or may not align with the things you suggest. People take that seriously, including me.

He could've but the GP knew he was starting shit by asking that question. Don't expect people to take the high path when you're trying to mess with them. Seriously, if a cop is about to arrest you and you spit in his face don't be surprised when the cop knocks your teeth out when nobody is looking.

>You can answer to justify your decisions without being a jerk

Definitely. The problem here was GP was being a jerk and trying to make wolfram look bad by inciting a reaction. He succeeded but who really is the true ass hole here?

>But maybe I'm so naieve to have seen people respond in a reasonable way

Sure those people who respond that way are socially savvy. They know how to manipulate the situation to make themselves look good. Wolfram CLEARLY is not that type of person. But does that make him an ass? Nah. Shutting down a jerk who asks a insidious question like that is not the best response but it's an appropriate one. An eye for an eye.

[harry8]

Two points:

1)Stephen Wolfram is not a police officer and has not been spat at in the face.

2) You don't know the tone of the question and neither do I. The question is obvious and expected and deserves an answer in such a context.

[westoncb]

Sure, it may say something about his (in)ability to be diplomatic or emotionally controlled, but someone can rightly feel unobligated to respond to an accusation of hypocrisy in the middle of a q/a

[_HMCB_]

Or maybe the answer wasn’t what what was 1) wanted to be heard, 2) in the manner that was wanted.

As you grow older, you look back and maybe there’s something to be learned from an exchange. And it usually doesn’t favor oneself.

[gnramires]

The question seems very reasonable. It's certainly not comfortable, but in this context I would expect an answer definitely (the question was not childish or foolish as far as I can tell)

Indeed the overall project seems quite fine, but I think it has no chance of getting near Wolfram's aspirations due to its closed nature. It's just a really big proposition that couldn't fit a project like this. (If I recall correctly Wolfram described it himself as the equivalent of Google but storing all structured data of the world within). Google can do it because they don't make many promises on their data. But clearly they seem to want to make promises (i.e. structure) the data, so data collection and data cleaning might need manual curation (even with deep learning advances) which is just fit for a communitarian effort. A single company can't have experts in all fields curating datasets of everything, can it? (and if it can, should it?)

[copperx]

I had the same impression; however, after seeing a few livestreams with his employees discussing development, bugs, and design ideas, he does seem respectful and does constructive criticism quite well. I know that's not "closed door" behavior, but seems genuine.

[deltaonefour]

Wolfram definitely has a big ego. It makes him less likeable but none of it justifies what you did.

Knowing what you did... trying to humiliate him in front of a crowd I'm glad he dunked on you. I can't imagine working with some young person who thinks he's smart trying to humiliate and overshadow someone for no reason.

Call you niave? Yeah, you were niave.

[colanderman]

Why do you think the GP was "trying to humiliate" Wolfram?

It's possible to both like OSS, and not want to open-source a particular work for legitimate reasons.

Mr. Wolfram could have responded with those reasons. Bizarrely, he, like you, took it as an attack and responded unnecessarily rudely.

[deltaonefour]

There is nothing Bizarre here. That term is offensive and it's used insidiously in place of calling someone strange or weird. It's a term used to circumvent the rules here at HN, because by calling someone bizarre you avoided a direct insult, but the intent is 100% evident. I hate this political shit. Be straight. Don't play games. I have a different opinion than you. There is NOTHING "bizarre" about it.

I assume that you, like the GP, is human and of average human intelligence. So you can deduce several facts from this scenario. First of all... ALL of the REASONS for why someone would develop closed source software ARE COMPLETELY OBVIOUS. I know about the reasons, you know about those reasons, the audience knows about those reasons and the question asker 100% knows about those reasons. NOTHING needs to be explained. Why does microsoft keep windows closed source? Is the concept really that foreign to you? Why don't you ask that question to the CEO of microsoft? Send him an email because it's something you truly wonder about!

It's so Bizarre that you're not aware of the why windows or mathematica is closed source! See what I did there? Nothing is truly bizarre here it's just me imitating your manipulative language.

No what's really going on is you're taking a side and you're arguing for your team OSS despite the fact that you're aware of the insidiousness of asking this question to wolfram himself. Don't take sides, don't call people bizarre. Stay logical and argue for the situation at hand is my advice to you.

Anyway, From all of this, logically, you can derive the fact that the GP didn't ask that question to ascertain an answer BECAUSE the answer is obvious and HE ALREADY KNOWS THE ANSWER. The only other reason why he would ask a question like that is to start drama. He got drama, but likely didn't expect for the tables to be turned and get his own ass humiliated.

Mr. Wolfram 100% could have responded with the reasons I mentioned and those reasons would have been the better answer it would have made him look more mature and not ignite the wrath of the man who asked the question. But obviously Mr. Wolfram isn't a person I would consider socially savy so he took offense to an insult that was disguised as a question and responded in kind... which is not the best/smartest answer, but an appropriate one.

[boublepop]

That is a quite naive question to be honest. You might as well had asked Zuckerberg why Facebook isn’t open source.