[BbzzbB]

I similarly don't understand why Netflix is included. Well, I do, but I don't understand why "we" didn't change Cramer's acronym to FAAMG long ago, IMO Netflix does not belong with these names neither in it's size, it's role in tech or it's cash flow. Arguably Nvidia would be a more fitting N, but it's cash flow is not in the same league either.

[mgraczyk]

My understanding is that this acronym is partially based on the perceptions employees have about the compensation and perks given out by big tech companies. Historically, Microsoft didn't pay as well.

[BbzzbB]

I hear that thrown around, but while it may be accurate, it sounds like retconning as Jim Cramer came up with the term, and I can assure you Jim Cramer does not give a damn about developer salaries. It was about fast growing tech stocks, not software engineers.

Even that goofball is now calling for FAAMG[0] (well, MAMAA) while (some) devs want to cling on to FAANG. Bit funny how Facebook's name change was apparently the trigger for him.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/29/cramer-new-acronym-to-replac...

[13of40]

Up until the end of the 90s, Microsoft stock was booming enough that it was reasonable for them to compensate employees with less salary and more stock options. They survived the .com crash, but the stock basically flatlined for several years, making options not desirable as compensation. At some point, I think in the mid to late 2000s, they switched to higher salaries and actual stock grants instead of options. So there were a few years where it was paying less than other companies, but they corrected for it.

[bradleyjg]

On the other hand Netflix always had a much smaller rate of hiring than the others. If it was just about high pay Renaissance Technologies could have been included. It is best understood as high pay and large numbers of hires. In that view Netflix looks like a mistaken inclusion.

[random314]

Jim Cramer coined the term to identify hot stocks. The term was coopted by big tech employees.

[cactus2093]

Apple and Amazon generally haven't paid as high as FB, Google, and Netflix in total comp either though. Of course in hindsight the stock gains in the past 5 years if you worked at either company have still made you extraordinarily well paid, and same with Microsoft.

[WalterBright]

> Historically, Microsoft didn't pay as well.

Microsoft minted millionaires of its employees like popcorn. In the 90s the newspaper estimated that 10,000 Microsoft millionaires lived in the area.

[poulsbohemian]

Tangential thought here: Today it’s fashionable to say that the reason for Seattle area housing costs is “Amazon,” so why wasn’t it the same thing in the 90s with Microsoft? My guess is that it’s a difference of scale: that back then there was still room to build on the eastside, and now it’s not just Microsoft yielding high incomes and wealth, but also Amazon, Google, Facebook, and others. Still, interesting to ponder the real role of these companies in housing costs (since that’s the knee-jerk assumption)

[WalterBright]

Housing prices in the eastside were definitely blamed on Microsoft.

Before Microsoft, for example, Kirkland was where you bought a house if you didn't have much money. Microsoft built their campus next door, and that was the end of cheap Kirkland real estate.

Housing prices were closely related to commuting distance from the campus.

[taeric]

My guess would be location. Amazon is one of the only companies to locate in the city. Not near it, in it.

Such that the "campus" of other companies is a discrete thing.

How this fits for housing is that many new hires to Amazon don't have cars, and choose to live close to where they don't need them. Not really an option for the campus centric companies, where folks live further out and commute.

[WalterBright]

Seattle commutes are pretty miserable. Always have been. The problem is the metropolitan area rings a huge lake, so a grid arrangement of roads is impossible.

The current problem is Sound Transit does not recognize that the metropolitan area rings Lake Washington, and the sensible thing is to build mass transit around that ring. I don't think the ST people have ever looked at a map. Even worse, the old rail corridors that ringed the lake were deliberately destroyed.

[taeric]

I mean. You aren't wrong. But Atlanta commutes were easily as bad back when I lived there.

[daxfohl]

Amazon isn't known for Silicon Valley comp levels either.

[zuhayeer]

They're catching up with their new pay bands, SDE II is starting to get offers in 350k - 400k range. Can even go higher by Q1 next year.

[User23]

Their “philosophy of total compensation” used to actually penalize you for past RSU grants appreciating beyond projection. Even with a strong review you’d hear things like you can’t get a salary bump, because you’re already over your target compensation. I wonder if that’s still the case.

[CoastalCoder]

Over time I've learned to tune out the reasons that employers use to justify changes to total comp. I just don't see why their reasoning would matter to me.

I find it more useful to make my own assessments about what I could make elsewhere, and whether or not (all things considered) I want to continue with my current employer.

[WalterBright]

Washington Amazon employees don't have to pay the heavy SV taxes, either.

At least until lately. Washington is working overtime to raise taxes to California levels.

[it_does_follow]

> to FAAMG long ago

Because Netflix pays Senior Engineers ~$500k/year in cash and MS pays Principal Engineers $300k TC?

[finolex1]

The acronym has nothing to do with average developer salaries, for there are lots of other contenders that pay more.

[anamexis]

Developer salaries is the only context I’ve ever understood it with.

[clpm4j]

Originally it was about the companies' high performing stocks. The salaries are a downstream effect, and then it just got adopted by the salary-optimizing crowd of engineers and college students.

[gopher_space]

I'd love to read an article from an ex-Netflix engineer explaining why their service is such garbage. I want money, but the reason I'd think about asking for that much is because I'd need to interface with massive irritations.

[CoastalCoder]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "such garbage"?

E.g., I stopped using Netflix for several reasons: uninteresting content, obnoxious UI, and unhelpful/implausible recommendations system.

But I was always very happy with the reliability and performance of their streaming system.

[ajkjk]

It's not garbage? What are you talking about.

[exdsq]

What cheapskates Microsoft are!

[dasyatidprime]

Thus ‘GAFAM’, though I've more commonly seen that one in the francophone world.

[BbzzbB]

I'm from Québec and GAFAM is the usual media term for the big tech companies here. Amusing how the acronym got (IMO appropriately) corrected in translation, tho I'm not sure if it's just an artifact of it sounding cool (whereas GAFAN would be read out "gafɑ̃")