[afavour]

> So what are the exit criteria?

Vaccination. Which is one of the reasons it’s especially infuriating when anti-maskers are also anti-vaccine. By far and away the easiest way to do away with masks is for everyone to just get the vaccine.

For myself, I have two small children that are currently not eligible to be vaccinated. So I will be continuing to wear a mask indoors until they can be.

> You can't seriously expect asymptomatic people to wear masks in public forever.

Another shame this has become such a culture war topic because there’s nothing wrong with the idea of wearing masks when appropriate, indefinitely. As the OP said, in Japan people wear them during flu season and when they feel themselves coming down with a cold. There’s nothing wrong with that, nor is it a particular burden on the vast majority of the population.

I live in NYC and might continue to wear a mask when I’m on the subway during flu season, it feels like common sense. But I know if I try to do that in other cities in the country I’ll be looked upon as if I’m a leper.

[galaxyLogic]

It's a bit counter-intuitive that it is precisely in the presence of people who don't wear a mask that YOU should be wearing one.

Our intuitive understanding, inclination is "do as others do". "Oh, nobody's wearing a mask, must mean there is no virus around here". No. Not. If people are not wearing masks it is more likely that there's a lot of virus going on.

People who don't wear a mask in your presence are likely to be careless about protecting them against the virus in other ways, and therefore are more likely to have it already.

[belorn]

Vaccinations has to a degree the same issue as masks. The question isn't if they work, but rather how effective they are in different contexts. It seems we are now at three vaccinations for just 2021, and multiple different mutations of the virus. I hope strongly this third dose will be it and this latest mutation will be the final one, however listening to researchers that discuss the subject makes me less hopeful.

The exit criteria is that the general population get enough protection that covid outcomes behave similar to other seasonal flu viruses. The hope is that this will be achieved through a combination of vaccinations and time, but we won't know until the data is in. What is known in many countries is that transmission of covid by vaccinated people has surpassed greatly those of unvaccinated (by simple quantity of people who are vaccinated), which is why masks in high risk areas is still recommended for tipple vaccinated people. I would recommend a mask in NYC subway to combat Covid regardless of how much vaccine you have taken.

[SpicyLemonZest]

It seems to me that it’s become a culture war topic because people are advocating for something stronger than that. I also plan to wear a mask on public transit for the long term (I kinda wanted to before), but I don’t want to have to wear a mask grocery shopping, or do the thing where you wear it for five seconds while walking from a restaurant door to your table.

[syshum]

The CDC disagree with you as they now say everyone should wear a mask regardless of vaccination status because we now know that even vaccinated people spread the virus you just do not get as sick

>infuriating when anti-maskers are also anti-vaccine

I am anti-mandates, so would you count me as an anti-masker and anti-vaxer?

>>and when they feel themselves coming down with a cold

This is the key point that betrays your statement, They wear them to prevent spreading sickness to others, your statement imply you will wear them prevent getting sick. Non-n95 masks are not effective at preventing you from becoming sick, and infact in some ways should concentrate a flu virus and make you sick where you would not have otherwise gotten ill.

Masks are good for already sick people to use to prevent further spread that is the correct use for normal non-n95 masks

[afavour]

> This is the key point that betrays your statement

Why do these conversations always devolve into people trying to make “gotcha” points?

I was pointing out reasons why wearing a mask could be sensible. Those reasons aren’t necessarily anything to do with COVID. But there’s now such a cultural issue around it that the reasons won’t even matter. You’re a “masker” or an “anti-masker”.

[TheBlight]

Do you not pay attention? Have you not seen case numbers in Gibraltar? Fully vaxed Lebron James caught it. In what world do you live in such that you can ignore the vaccines are obviously not preventing transmission?

[afavour]

Vaccines dramatically reduce the danger of the virus. I have friends who caught COVID pre-vaccine and it was horrendous. Some are still dealing with the effects today. I have other friends that caught it while vaccinated. They felt rough for a few days.

The public health argument is very clear: vaccines reduce transmission. No, they don’t stop it. But they also reduce the strain on ICUs and other healthcare facilities needed to treat people with extreme cases.

In what world do you live in such that you can ignore that?

[helge9210]

> Vaccines dramatically reduce the danger of the virus

Obviously, if you take the same COVID-naive person and subject this person to a virus both in vaccinated and unvaccinated state (repeatedly), you can derive a conclusion. This is a simple and easy to understand impossible experiment.

How your conclusion was derived? (I'm not arguing with it, I just don't understand the method.)

[throwaway946513]

Reminds me of the vaccine for the flu - where time and time again, I'm told by anti-vaxers that the flu vaccine doesn't work, they got the flu, and were fine.

Lest we forget that the flu killed millions of people a century ago, the vaccine likely reduced the chance you caught it, but still managed to catch the disease, and the reduction in severe symptoms when you get it.

I remember reading every year about someone who refused to vaccinate their kids, and one of the kids died from the flu.

Vaccines don't 100% prevent catching any virus. Especially fast mutating viruses.

[galaxyLogic]

Have you not seen the case-numbers in USA: 777,000 people dead from Covid. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+people+have+died+fr...

[helge9210]

I wonder, how many of those people didn't have easy regular access to medical services.

[twox2]

I live in NYC and can't imagine not wearing a mask in the subway ever again... it smells rank enough to begin with.

[blindmute]

There is nothing wrong with wearing a mask however long you want. There is however something very wrong with being forced to wear a mask against your will however long someone else wants.