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by KennyBlanken 1658 days ago
Yeah, that dude is deeeefinitely deserving of having antisemitism mentioned in the first sentence.

My problem with Wikipedia is that some articles are fiercely gatekept by individuals who have clear bias and the community does little about it. A great example of this would be the Alcoholics Anonymous page.

Any time someone tries to add information about the ineffectiveness of AA's all-or-nothing treatment of substance abuse, the abuse/harassment that goes on in groups, the documentary that revealed said abuse and harassment - one of a small handful of accounts, who rarely participate on any other page, immediately revert the edit with a gish-gallop of claimed wikipedia violations.

Now, aside from the fact that reverting edits is supposed to be something of last resort - the reasons they cite for removing stuff strain credulity all the time. For example, they dismiss the documentary because it apparently wasn't screened in enough festivals and theatres. Which...might be a thing (it really isn't), if one were trying to cite it as a source...but you can't even mention the existence of the documentary, a demonstrable fact, without that being shot down as well due to the documentary not meeting their standards for a documentary.

I believe they also cited a wikipedia rule that says that "both sides" type coverage of a subject needs to be proportionate to how mainstream/fringe each "side" is. So by their reasoning: because there aren't many people talking about the problems with AA, the AA article shouldn't have any mention of the problems with AA.

They justify all this by claiming the AA is under "attack" and they are "defending" AA from the evil people (did I mention that AA is closely tied to Christianity?)

Wikipedia is controlled by a very small number of people who use an exhaustive policy manual to justify whatever actions they want to take, defend viewpoints they like and attack those they don't. It's sort of like how US federal and state laws are extensive that just walking to your mailbox, you probably break some sort of law and could be detained by police for it.

That's the core problem. Wikipedia isn't governed by the truth or fact, but by who knows the policy manual best.

2 comments

I'm just saying an example where the claim in the sentence is a summary of what is in the actual article may not be the best example of bias to use.

Especially when the example is a philosopher and the thing being described is one of their philosophies.

> reverting edits is supposed to be something of last resort

Not at all. The "BRD" policy puts reverting at the centre of the recommended approach to editing.

"BRD" is not at all a recommended approach to editing, it really is more of a last resort. You're very much expected to propose non-trivial improvements to the article on the talk page before you make them, and then respond to any actionable feedback; at which point anyone who reverts you after the fact is acting against established consensus. Being "BOLD" is okay for simple copyedits but not for much else nowadays.
From the wikipedia policy page:

> Consider reverting only when necessary. BRD does not encourage reverting

It's bizarre that you think it "puts reverting at the center of the recommended approach to editing" when the policy specifically says it doesn't even encourage reverting.

Which "policy page" were you referring to? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guideli... doesn't mention reverting at all (rather surprisingly).

IME, the majority of edits on WP seem to be reverts. I don't see much evidence of reverting being discouraged.

That passage is from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_discus...

It's an "explanatory supplement" to the Consensus policy. The problem with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines is that arguably there are so many of them that you can almost always find one that says what you want it to say. :)

And if not, WP:IAR will do the trick. That, too, is policy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules