[cbrewster]

Author here. In our case, we had a large base Docker image called Polygott (https://github.com/replit/polygott) it pulls in dependencies for 50+ different languages from various repositories. We would pin things where possible, but its still very difficult to ensure reproducible builds.

Additionally, docker builds have free access to the network to do anything it would like. Nix goes to great lengths to sandbox builds and limit network access. Anything accessed from a network requires a pinned sha 256 hash to ensure the remote data hasn't changed. (https://nixos.wiki/wiki/Nix#Sandboxing)

[throwaway9870]

That makes sense. I think the real issue isn't Docker vs Nix, it is that some package managers are almost impossible to use to build reproducible images. I worked with debootstrap 10+ years ago trying to script reproducible builds and found it exceeding hard. Gentoo made it almost trivial (Google used it for ChromeOS so perhaps they felt similar). I will look into Nix.

It appears that with the proper package manager support, Docker would be fine?

I come from a hardware background and seem to be a lot more paranoid than most software folks. I would struggle to trust a build where so much is not pinned.

[treis]

Why do you need reproducible builds for Docker? The whole point is that you build it once and then you use that container on as many servers as you want.

[cbrewster]

What happens when you need to update some dependency within that image? Now you have to do an image rebuild. If you're lucky only the top-most layers will be rebuilt and the base layers stay the same, if you're unlucky nearly the whole image is rebuilt. Usually we just want to update some subset of dependencies, but during the rebuild some other dependencies may get updated unintentionally (eg if they aren't pinned to a particular version). For most, this may not be an issue but at Replit, everyone's projects use this base Docker image. Unintended updates can cause breakage for our users.

[treis]

That's not really what a reproducible build is though. Reproducible builds are you get the exact same thing from your build script today or three weeks for now. Getting unexpected changes with an updated dependency is a different problem than not having a reproducible build.

[cbrewster]

Fair, but its still a real issue and solved in a similar way: Nix has finer grained reproducibility -- not only at the environment level but also at the derivation level. Being able to pick and choose which dependencies to update while ensuring other packages are left exactly the same is valuable to us.