Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by anon5 5405 days ago
We can at best hope that it is going to turn out well, in the end.

Anna Hazare is being hastily compared to Gandhi. Before this he had good credentials, i.e. was fairly well known in India, but he was just one-among-many-equals (not even first among equals) of social activists.

The positive though is that, the three most important people around him, also have got good credentials. Okay two at least (Kiran Bedi and Arvind Kejriwal). About the third - Mr. Bhushan - not much was known earlier.

Arvind Kejriwal in particular had worked very hard in the activism space, being one of the key guys behind acts such as RTI. (It may interest the HN community more, that he happens to be a product of IIT in India - the most reputable tech institution over here. )

But this sudden burst of 'I-want-results-now' sort of hyper activism. Has left an admirer like me confused at best. Confused, as to whether the good guys indeed are still on the right track. Or have broken down.

Broken down, akin to a website owner, who after years of toiling to build traffic the clean and hard way, have suddenly resorted to black hat SEO. (If the analogy is not obvious, I mean, just like dirty and unethical SEO, may be easy to build traffic. Similarly fast to death is an easy way to build frenzy. Not easy always, but easy once in a while, and this technique was being applied the first time in front of new TV media).

And just being good people and having good intentions is not enough. You have to be a lot careful with these things. As they say 'With power comes more .....'.

Want to recount an anecdote to make a point: Recently I had a reason to visit a village in northern India. I won't polish my words here - The experience was ugly. The village was very dirty. The people ultra lazy. Open drains all over the place smelling bad. People just sitting idle. Houses in the state of decay, but no body is working to rebuild them. Electricity comes only in the night, that of course is not their problem.

My family and me had planned to stay for 2 days there. But had to rush back the same day, as I could not simply just get myself to use the dirty toilet there. (Call me whatever - snobbish, unfeeling, uncaring, etc. but I am being brutally honest here)

So a thought occurred to me. That its not corruption-freedom they need now urgently. Its basic education (for their kids) and perhaps some inspiration (and some training also won't hurt) in life to get up from their haunches and start doing some work.

I may sound like a right wing capitalist here. But that's just a label, and my anon status gives me the liberty to write freely. And BTW, in general I am left leaning for various things - have followed Paul Krugman's writings for past few years. And also, I am a big fan of the Mahatma Gandhi. (I needed to say this, to give my fellow Indians, a background of where I am coming from. So before even you start getting to abusing me, please at-least bother to understand me)

On the matter of abuse, I feel sorry for Manmohan Singh our PM. People just don't have any broader perspective. And can just so easily be swayed from one side to another. Not long back - i.e. until about two years back - he was being hailed as a great person, who ushered India into liberalization of the 90s. Which allowed the GDP to become 8% from and liberated it from the Hindu growth rate of 3-4%. And allowed a great Indian middle class to emerge, etc. etc.

But now, the very same people, are just after his blood all the time. I was almost fearing that the poor guy does not get a heart attack, from so much pressure, while every body else is worried about Anna's health (no disrespect to him either).

Now on corruption: People don't even see the irony of what they are saying and supporting. In the past two years lots of scams have been uncovered - CWG & 2G-spectrum-allocation the most prominent of them.

IMO two things that were most instrumental for the uncovering were: 1) The RTI (right to information) law passed only few years back and 2) the CAG reports. Powerful personalities went to jail (still are in jail) and many others still live in fear.

So is that a good thing or a bad thing? Meaning, will people would have been better off if these were not uncovered or are people better off now that they are in fact uncovered.

The least the uncovering of these scams tells, is that the system is working. So one would expect that people will work towards empowering the current set of things (laws/institutions) which have proven that they are very effective. And not indulge in hyper-activism, the outcome of which is at best unpredictable. Even enact more laws, who is stopping.

But no sir. We want some more blood. And we want it now. So what, if the movement or agitation, call it whatever you like, shames India into looking like a Arab country. (Some lunatic journo, surely compared this with an 'Arab Spring' ... I almost heard him. )

Silent evolutionary things, are much more powerful, than a revolutionary change. The latter also can be helpful. But people leading them have to be sure. Really really sure. I honestly am still confused, at best. I still don't doubt the intentions of Kejriwal and Ms. Bedi. I hope they are guided well by their inner beings...

And did I miss an Obama like orator, to articulate the government's perspective on things.

EDIT: No disrespect to Arab countries either. My remark is only intended for the rulers (kings) of those countries, which have obviously been abusing the populace, who have now very bravely gathered the will to fight them.

1 comments

I'm sorry but you sound very presumptuous - you could'nt bring yourself to stay a single day in situations where people have stayed their lifetime - or clean the toilet yourself - and you presume to dictate what is best for them ?

About the shift in perceptions about Manmohan Singh: a person who is an A player in one position may well be a C player in a different position. It is a fact that despite RTI which only affected the lower levels of the govt, the corruption on the higher levels has only increased in the last few years. The oratory you miss also affects the effectiveness of the government itself.

I think if you are interested in the subject it behoves you find out more about the what and why before sounding off confusedly on the topic. More like Kejriwal and less like Manmohan.

I agree with you on your second point. A person good for situation A may not be good for the position B. But that doesn't give a license to rubbish all of the person's achievements. As people at large seem to be doing the past few days.

You caught me in one of my several weaknesses (your first point). But you must at-least acknowledge that I said it myself.

Don't agree with your last para. Now you are presuming, I have not made an effort. I did not read the bill. But I made efforts - right from looking up wikipedia a few months back on 'Ombudsman' and many other things (articles/views etc.) ...

And second point in your last para: Please distinguish between ambivalence or (admission of confusion) regarding somebody else's action and accusing me of being confused. I spent 45 minutes, trying to articulate my views (it did tax my articulation capabilities) and re-read it before posting. I am not confused at all about what I am saying. I am only not sure, if what's happening is making sense in the right way. My hunch is that it does not.

EDIT: Corrected a few typos

Well props to you for truthfulness. I don't think anyone is rubbishing the PM personally.

I was reading the Progress Principle today. It makes the point that setbacks have an outsized influence on one's mental makeup - much more than progress does. Check it out.

What corruption leads to is a set of daily setbacks to individuals. On the one hand the govt says this problem is impossible to solve. On the other the protestors say they have researched the issue and here is a way to solve it.

Which one do you pick and support ? It's a no contest to me.

I may have been ambivalent in April. But now in Aug, seeing that the govt has watered down their version of the bill so much that their lokpal won't even accept allegations of corruption from the general public ... it is clear they have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. That made me more interested in the topic and I read the bill and both sides of the argument. My conclusion is that this is the chance to grab. Even if it reduces corruption by a few percentage points it will be a victory, and will release energy for the tasks that you mention so urgently need to get done.

I am impressed that you read the bill, and then decided to support it.

I did not like the process of getting it done, for one thing. We are having this discussion in a much more civil way. But please look across the Internet (just a twitter search on 'Anna' will give you all colors of tweets). Particularly, in the earlier part of the fast. People are ready to bulldoze/dominate/abuse others...

The 'I am Anna', 'You are Anna' irritates me. No body can have such a steep rise in stock, in just four months ...

Wearing a black hat for a moment. The big suspicion I have is: 1) Anna was used as a tool by Mr. Kejriwal and Ms. Bedi. This is very different than what Gandhiji would have allowed to be done of himself. 2) Anna also did it primarily for fame a retired activist, getting his time in the sun at last ...

Now again wearing my grey hat: I do believe that Arvind Kejrival and Kiran Bedi are good people, basically. But good people also can be misled (they have to be more careful.)

I think, my note above is written in a sober tone. I have just hinted (or even stopped before that) some of my fears/concerns without going into some specific dark doubts that I have illustrated in this comment.