[etempleton]

“I sometimes wonder what a better McDonalds would look like.”

I think a better McDonalds looks a lot like In and Out. If the Founder is accurate, McDonalds was a lot like In and Out at one time and operated like it. Chick-fil-a operates similarly.

One thing that is always fascinating to me when I go to either of those two fast food restaurants is the army of workers they have on staff at any time. Usually each doing one very specific job and doing it well. They seem to make up for the extra labor cost by having higher sales per store.

[pstuart]

Except the fries. In and Out fries are not very good (ironic since they make a point of making them fresh, which would make one think they should be better).

Otherwise, better quality, prices, and service (and staff pay and treatment).

[shagie]

Have you tried ordering them well done? Its on the "secret menu" - http://hackthemenu.com/in-n-out/secret-menu/well-done-fries/

[pstuart]

Good to know. I've now moved away from their territory but I'll try that the next time I do dine there.

[deathanatos]

Yours does seem to be the more commonly expressed sentiment, but I love In-n-Out's fries, in particular, compared to McD's. McD's are too often "would you like some fries with that salt?", and IMO the In-n-Out ones just taste better. More "meat" to them. Don't seem to turn into cardboard like McD fries.

But it's taste, I suppose.

[etempleton]

Not a big fan of either of their fries to be honest. In and Outs are fresh, but not blanched and so soft and mushy. McDonalds, on the other hand, are crispy but lacks flavor and weirdly get cold extremely fast.

[listenallyall]

"Better" for whom? McDonald's is massively successful with $200 billion market cap and its stock essentially only goes straight up. The franchisees have always had gripes with corporate, always want to save a few pennies, but these arguments are tiny in the grand scheme... most franchisees are also enormously successful and fantastically rich.

Nobody is forcing you to go to McDonald's, stick with INO if it makes you feel good. I love it too (CFA, not so much) but each restaurant has its own niche and each chain has found the style that works for them.

[danaris]

> "Better" for whom? McDonald's is massively successful with $200 billion market cap and its stock essentially only goes straight up.

And this is exactly the source of the problem: the idea that the purpose of McDonald's (or any other company) is to provide Number Go Up thrills to its stockholders, rather than to produce a good product, with the profit being the reward for doing so well.

[listenallyall]

What problem? McDonald's produces a terrific product that millions of people enjoy every day and that's why the stock does so well.

McDonald's goal isn't to produce the greatest burger in the world. It succeeds at the best combination of pretty tasty food, high menu variety, very convenient, generally quick, and low price. It is not #1 at any single attribute (maybe convenience) but the best overall combination.

[etempleton]

No doubt. I am not saying that McDoanlds is unsuccessful, rather that by customer satisfaction surveys In and Out wins. They also have, perhaps, a less scalable model of business and so can never grow to McDonalds size while also maintaining that quality.

Interestingly, Chick-fil-a has learned to scale and maintain quality.

[listenallyall]

This is just an opinion but CFA does not scale well. In my experience overall quality and service at CFA has dropped considerably, and not just at new stores, but older ones as well. Part of the issue is that CFA does not allow owners to own multiple stores, so every new store has a rookie on top. Well-trained, but not experienced.

Every INO is company-owned, overall I think it manages to keep quality pretty high at all it's stores. Of course part of that is due to the extremely limited menu, and also that INO has never been known for fast service. INO basically tells customers up front, we aren't convenient and we aren't fast and we don't sell anything except burgers... that's 3 areas of potential customer dissatisfaction that they take off the table. All that is left is price, which is good not great, and taste/quality, which, to its credit, INO is pretty fanatical about. Edit: and cleanliness/service, also strong points for INO

[abdel_nasser]

and i think its a much more dignified job to work at in n out than mcdonalds. their employees are always fresh and eager. it kind of reminds me of costco employees who always seem to be well put together.