[beckman466]

> Has anyone heard from the President a message to reduce consumption in the U.S.? We waste so much

Who is 'we'? It's big companies and the military that are causing massive amounts of resource waste and overuse. Telling the working class to 'improve their lives' is quite ridiculous. This is a production problem at a systems level, not an individual consumption problem. That narrative of individual change is simply gaslighting by the propertied class.

[CapricornNoble]

>>>It's big companies and the military that are causing massive amounts of resource waste and overuse.

While often wasteful, the military is only 4% of US GDP,[1] and almost 40% of its expenditures is Pay & Benefits.[2] The rest, about $400 Billion, is <2% of the US's ~$21 Trillion economy (real 2019 GDP). It's...interesting...to single that sector of the economy out in particular.

[1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locat...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_...

[beckman466]

> It's big companies and the military that are causing massive amounts of resource waste and overuse.

oops i mixed up two different points in my original sentence. this is what i am talking about:

1) big companies are causing massive amounts of resource waste and overuse: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...

2) the US military is the biggest contributor to CO2 emissions: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/11/worlds-m...

[rhino369]

Big business is wasteful on our behalf. If I fly on plane, you'd blame American Airlines, but it was 100% my consumption. Are you going to blame me or Toyota for my V8 4Runner? I bought it.

You might think, "well, its American Airlines choice not to use carbon neutral biofuel!" But consumers always pick the lower priced flight. So if AA cost 15 bucks more than UA because of green fuel, 90% of the country would just fly UA.

You can blame certain companies for lying about global warming or polluting even when it wouldn't raise costs. But that doesn't absolve you from your role in consumption.

[beckman466]

> Big business is wasteful on our behalf. If I fly on plane, you'd blame American Airlines, but it was 100% my consumption.

the problem is that the development of technology is not done democratically. there is an artificial scarcity in the solutions the working class can choose between due to the way our economic system bottlenecks/limits innovation by imposing an 'intellectual property' regime. those with privileged access to existing techno-scientific tools can expand their control of intellectual property, and the exorbitant economic rents the state empowers them to extract.

> You can blame certain companies for lying about global warming or polluting even when it wouldn't raise costs.

> But that doesn't absolve you from your role in consumption.

again, you are implying we live in a world where we make choices. we do not. decisions are made for us way before we buy the products/commodities we use and consume from supermarket shelves or car dealer showrooms or wherever.

an example to counter your flights example. instead it's take the option between train and air travel and consider the underdevelopment (terrible state) of railways in the US compared to many other countries. 'consumers' cannot choose train travel in the US because the state has not invested in the infrastructure (despite the proven reduced CO2 emissions).

add to all this the fact that all modern tech was developed using taxpayer money (an example of state innovation is SEMATECH - basically a 'socialist' programme which had US tech companies temporarily waive patent claims (at the cost of $100 million payout from the US govt.)) to try to out-innovate Japanese firms together, because the existing economic systems that are supposed to foster innovation, didn't.

when you look at it from this systemic perspective, blaming individuals is gaslighting by the propertied class.

https://magazine.scienceforthepeople.org/vol24-2-dont-be-evi...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEMATECH

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley

https://jacobinmag.com/2015/03/socialism-innovation-capitali...

[AnIdiotOnTheNet]

While I agree in general, I think as long as the rest of us persist in our mindset that we don't need to change we will resist all efforts to do so on a societal level as well.