[cheese_goddess]

You don't minimise suffering by not eating meat. You're maximising your bragging rights about your superior ethics. What minimises the suffering of farm animals is... farming. Because without farming they'd live in the wild where they'd suffer from disease, parasites and bad weather and they'd be eaten by predators. Each and every one of them. And most of the time, they'd die while being eaten alive.

At least humans kill our food before we eat it. That is minimising suffering.

[jallen_dot_dev]

> Because without farming they'd live in the wild where they'd suffer from disease

No. Without farming, farm animals just wouldn't exist to live a miserable life. Farmers are not doing them any favors by bringing them into the world.

[cheese_goddess]

Farm animals dont' live miserable lives. Animals in large scale, factory farms are mistreated, but they are still better off than in the wild. The majority of farms in the world are small-sale family farms were animals are treated at least as good as humans:

> Five of every six farms in the world consist of less than two hectares, operate only around 12 percent of all agricultural land, and produce roughly 35 percent of the world's food, according to a study published in World Development.

https://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/1395127/icode/

If you listen to vegan propaganda you may get the impression that all farming everywhere in the entire world means that animals must be tortured in factory farms, but that's a lie. There is nothing in small-scale farming to make animals' lives miserable.

[causasui]

"If animals weren't factory farmed they'd just be wild" is a hilarious misrepresentation of the cause and effect of how farmed animals come to be, and I assume you know that and are being disingenuous.

"Vegan propaganda" ok Cheese Goddess. These animals not existing is preferable to the hell they endure on factory farms.

[cheese_goddess]

> "If animals weren't factory farmed they'd just be wild" is a hilarious misrepresentation of the cause and effect of how farmed animals come to be, and I assume you know that and are being disingenuous.

"If animals weren't factory farmed they'd just be wild" is a dirty lie that you said yourself and I never did. You put it in scare quotes to say that they're my words, but they're yours and you're the one who's outright lying. So much about "disingenuous" then.

And I don't support or defend factory farming, quite the contrary. I think it's a disaster and I'm very upset that it's taking over the world like a cancer spreading and displacing small-scale farming. And I'm very well aware of its horrors. It's you, and people who bundle all of farming with factory farming like you, who are clueless about farming.

Partly this is because the majority of people like you are natives of the countries that are at the heart of the cancer of factory farming, like the Americas or North and Western Europe, countries that consume, per capita, about double the amount of meat as anybody else. People who grew up thinking that "food" means "meat", who have probably never even seen a farm animal up close, who have no clue about how their food is made, or what's in it, even when they're not eating meat. And it's people like you, with strong opinions but weak knowledge, the people of nations who have destroyed their own food production and replaced it with an industry that feeds them shit, that want to tell the rest of the world, all of us other people, how to eat? That's just tragic and so stupid, and arrogant and conceited.

Btw, my username is because I make cheese and your comment makes you sound like a puerile idiot.

[causasui]

> "If animals weren't factory farmed they'd just be wild" is a dirty lie that you said yourself and I never did.

... yet earlier...

> Because without farming they'd live in the wild

Seems pretty cut and dry.

[cheese_goddess]

Yeah, pretty cut and dry: I say "farming", you say "factory farming".

Friendly advice? Learn to have a discussion like an adult.