[tomlagier]

The US seems to struggle with a balance between security of property and police violence against minorities. I can't believe that we can't have a save and secure society without extreme police violence. It seems like many other countries manage this, why can't we?

[president]

The US has problem of people of placing the problem of police brutality at a higher priority over solving the actual problem of crime. Most logical countries focus more on the latter and have less empowered criminals due to laws and policies that deter crime.

[nobody9999]

I'm very much in favor of Blackstone's Formulation[0], myself.

What you appear to be suggesting would very much be against that.

If I misunderstand you, please correct me.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_ratio

[austincheney]

What does this looting have to do with police violence?

[zwieback]

It goes like this: police violence leads to increased scrutiny, city and police leaders decrease direct engagement, opportunistic low-level criminals become more active. This has definitely been happening in Portland, OR, not sure if the SF cases follow a similar pattern.

There's no question police need to be reformed, also no question there are a ton of criminals exploiting the situation. Prediction: it gets even worse for minorities and other overpoliced groups.

[AnimalMuppet]

Why does it get worse for minorities and overpoliced groups? Because there's a backlash, and police need to "prove a point" or "demonstrate that they're in control"? Or because the police remain nerfed, and the majority population classifies every minority as a criminal, and conducts themselves accordingly?

[ryandrake]

If you simply assume as a given that "violence against minorities" is inextricably baked into the culture of policing in general in the USA, then it makes obvious sense that as you ramp up police activity, you therefore also ramp up violence against minorities. Whether or not that assumption is true is up for debate, but if it is, it simplifies the equation.

[zwieback]

Not sure I parsed your question exactly but I think it'll get worse because police will back off in minority neighborhoods except for the most extreme cases. That puts the average inhabitant of those neighborhoods at greater risk and gang violence will increase.

[Miner49er]

Is there actually evidence of this though? Is crime actually increasing in places where police are decreasing direct engagement or are people just paying more attention?

[zwieback]

Just anecdotal for me. During the protest phase and after we had a bunch of breakins at our and neighboring condo buildings, which was very unusual in the past. It was impossible to get the cops interested. These types of crimes probably don't even show up in statistics. I think Portland might be an extreme example because it's a very liberal city with lots of protesting and a poor police track record and now the situation has deteriorated a lot, lots of attrition and low morale.