[gretch]

Again, very easy to say as you talk about the issue in the abstract, behind a keyboard across the internet. Wake up in the middle of the night to strangers at your home - you just caught a bunch of people in the middle of committing a felony and maybe they are not the type to leave witnesses behind.

I don't know if you are putting on the airs of being a brave knight, or you truly are detached, but there's such a thing as visceral fear that people are coming to take your stuff or hurt you. Be glad that you've lived a privileged life where you've never known such a fear

[ketzo]

The strangers are outside my home, and your suggestion is to leave my home to confront them? With lethal force?

That is crazy to me. Truly insane. If they tried to enter my home or harm my loved ones, that’s a different story. But if I saw people destroying my property, not attempting to get to me, I would call the police and lock the doors, not go fucking hunting.

[gretch]

No one in this thread that I've seen is using the language of hunting. No one is saying "boy I wish some fools would come try some shit so I can bag a couple of heads". Do those people exist in the world? Sure, of course there are. There's a few people of every view point given 7 billion of us.

Here people are saying, "Well I can't just let them have this valuable part of my car (that I might not be able to afford to replace). And I'm pretty sure the police aren't going to help me. And I don't think they will stop if I ask them. So I guess I have to shoot"

If you've already judged those people in your head as "hunters", then you're the one who's lost, not them. You have this completely distorted perception of your fellow human perhaps based on the media reporting on 0.0001% of crazy people in the world, and now you believe everyone who lives in texas thinks that way or something.

[ketzo]

No, no one in this thread is using that vocabulary. I am, because I think that's what people are describing, and it makes me sick.

I'm not misinterpreting a thing you said. No, I'm looking at exactly the situation you are describing:

I'm in my house. It's 2am. I see a couple of people in my driveway fucking around under my car.

And you're saying that a valid moral decision is to leave my house with the intention to kill someone?

That is seeing a situation that you know you could leave alone, and choosing to introduce lethal force. That is fucking hunting for conflict to a degree that is absolutely frightening.

[Tronno]

> I don't think they will stop if I ask them. So I guess I have to shoot

You are not saying "I would confront the thieves and bring a weapon in case I am attacked".

You are not even saying "I would use a weapon to threaten them into compliance".

You are saying you would shoot on sight. Instead of de-escalating, you would take the opportunity to ambush and kill. Can you see why some people might call that "hunting"?

I'm sorry you live in a world where the theft of a car part is a life-threatening event. I can see how vigilante justice would make a crazy sort of sense in that situation. However, in a stable society, those actions would be considered a serious crime.

[palmetieri2000]

'Wake up in the middle of the night to strangers at your home - you just caught a bunch of people in the middle of committing a felony and maybe they are not the type to leave witnesses behind.' Literally every country deals with this problem, the vast majority of us do without using firearms.

Do you think that 'visceral fear'? only exists in the USA? Normal people in England, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Spain, France, Germany, Sweden, etc have had their home invaded or the car broken into and have dealt with the situation without guns.

[gretch]

Well what do you want me to do? Apologize? Parts of the US are shitty and not as good the countries you listed. The police show up and beat the people who called them

https://youtu.be/jgjEbKc6jXk

You can judge us if you want. It really doesn't matter what some far away people who have no understanding of the way of life here think. It's good a thing we have a system where we are judged by a jury of our own peers here.

[palmetieri2000]

Police have beaten people who have called them in Australia, it does not justify me shooting criminals for taking my car parts.

You say 'not as good as the countries you listed.' Yet you dismiss the thoughts of someone from who is trying to explain why people like YOU think we are 'good' countries.

Your last sentence is the summation of the modern American attitude that is so problematic, it is parochial, arrogant and unable learn from the rest of the world unless it is for profit.

And re jury, who do you think the jury is in each of those countries I listed? In Australia my jury is made of my 'peers' too buddy. It just my peers in my system don't believe crime against property justifies summary execution.