[gryfft]

Well, be specific! What snake oil am I peddling? What magic claims do I have? "Vaccines work," and more specifically, "people who take the vaccine do not get as sick or spread the disease as much" are straight up _observations._

So... Science says that's "un-possible," hrm?

[profeatur]

There's a difference between "vaccines work," and the vaccine specifically developed for COVID works. Most of us who are skeptical of the second statement are not skeptical of the first. The snake oil is in the discourse.

[gryfft]

No, I said that we can simply and directly observe that those who receive the COVID vaccine ALMOST UNIVERSALLY do not wind up requiring hospitalization for COVID. This is "sky is blue" stuff.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/covid-19-hospitalizations-non...

Note my "communist left-winger" source. Let's go a step further! Here I'm linking an article whose headline will really stroke your confirmation bias:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-...

But if you read the actual article:

> Some 72 per cent of all patients in ICU since late June had an underlying condition. Between April and August, there were 193 Covid-19 deaths. Of the 178 patients whose vaccination status was known, 30 were at least 14 days after receiving the final dose of vaccine.

...

> “The rise in vaccinated patients in hospital is not a surprise as more and more people have been vaccinated,” said HSE chief clinical officer Dr Colm Henry.

> Whereas in January up to 50 people ended up in hospital for every 1,000 Covid-19 cases, now fewer than 20 hospitalisations occur for the same number of cases.

> “But for the vaccination programme, hospitals would have been overwhelmed,” Dr Henry said.

I ask you again: where is the snake oil? And I'll tell you: your emotional attachment to being right and being proud of your bullshit-detection-kit is making you prone to a type ii error here. Reject the null hypothesis. The COVID vaccine obviously, patently, visibly, openly works. Take your tools of skepticism and apply them somewhere that isn't equivalent to parking in a fire lane during a fire.

[profeatur]

Wittgenstein's ruler: Unless you have confidence in the ruler’s reliability, if you use a ruler to measure a table you may also be using the table to measure the ruler. The less you trust the ruler’s reliability, the more information you are getting about the ruler and the less about the table.

There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty. The fact that so many are presenting such an uncertain topic with such certainty itself carries a signal.

The only thing that will solve this uncertainty is time.

[gryfft]

> There are too many political, economic, and social incentives involved in propagating this new vaccine to say anything about it with the least bit of certainty.

Show your work. The argument, as you have made it, could apply to the CDC saying you shouldn't take lead supplements. You don't know who's pulling the strings of the CDC, therefore lead is good for you actually? You aren't pointing to anything contradicting the mountain of openly available evidence contradicting your position.

[user-the-name]

Yes, the main difference is that the COVID vaccines tend to work much better than many other vaccines.