[poszlem]

I don't know, maybe it's an American thing, but to a person from Europe this reads like an attempt at parody. I cannot believe one can watch Seinfeld (likely one of the most benign tv shows there are) and somehow find it problematic. I think we really reached a point when a big part of American culture (especially the constant racialization of everything) is not understandable to an average person from another country.

[nverno]

No it's definitely not an 'American' thing, in the broader sense- it is the most popular show of all time, I believe. I'm with you, I love Seinfeld but consider it very milquetoast- the comedy is centered around mundane daily events, just like Curb, and their over-the-top reactions, it shied away from anything remotely controversial. Various social norms have changed since the 90s, of course, so apparently that can offend people (?!), but there's no accounting for taste, as they say.

I only saw periodic episodes as a kid (had no TV), but watching it now, the physical comedy really stands out to me- a genre I've never been into, but Kramer, Elaine and George are great at it.

[jackemcpherson]

First off, I'm not an American.

To your point about the show, watch the clip yourself [0] and see how you feel. To me, this plays in pretty bad taste.

I understand that this episode was made 28 years ago and was probably fairly on par with attitudes at the time, but just like our attitudes to race have changed so has my attitude to comedy. Watching this today I react with cringe rather than laughing anywhere near as hard as the laugh track seems to imply I should be.

I'm also not singling out one particular episode, there are other examples of this. Another episode featuring a Pakistani-American character called "Babhu" also plays poorly to me today [1].

If you can watch these clips and think they're still benign then that's ok, we'll just have to agree to disagree, but I don't think you can watch them and still find it incomprehensible why someone might have an issue with them.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGwaupBdiSU [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUPH5OhXC1A

[olegious]

Wow you really missed the joke. The Indian joke is making fun of Jerry and his tone deafness. The girl that he’s interested in is a Native American and he’s making a fool of himself when he gave Elaine the “cigar store Indian” thinking he was going to get points in her mind

[jackemcpherson]

I'm not sure what from my comment makes you feel I don't understand this is the premise of the episode?

My criticism would be that a scene where the main character of a show makes a series of demeaning remarks about someone's race to the point where they are so offended that they leave the apartment isn't funny. The fact that Jerry is trying to get laid and blows his chances is beside the point.

The Winona character is humiliated and the episode gives this no weight at all. The only consequences for Jerry and Kramer's racism is that Jerry doesn't get into a relationship with Winona.

Looking back on this from 2021, it hasn't aged well for me.

[Negitivefrags]

It seems odd that you can't distinguish between a racist joke, and portraying being racist as a joke.

One is pro-racism, and the other is anti-racism.

This show portays being racist as something stupid and worthy of ridicule.

[zuminator]

I don't think that nuance is lost on anyone. But does it succeed? That's debatable. After all, in order to make the point that "making fun of native Americans is bad", the show still ends up making fun of native Americans. Making fun of native Americans might be "bad," but hey it's hilarious, just another one of Jerry's silly hijinks, so how bad could it really be?

Additionally Winona comes off as an oversensitive snowflake when she accuses Jerry of lowkey calling her an "Indian giver." In other words, maybe Jerry's a little racist, and that's wrong and silly, but being sensitive about it is equally wrong and silly, is the message. Fortunately Winona breaks it off and the show can go back to forgetting Native Americans exist as anything but a foil to Jerry's gang.

Furthermore, because real-life Jerry is so "brave" as to skewer character-Jerry's racism, real-life Jerry gets to congratulate himself for being woke.

To sum up, Jerry Seinfeld scores points for himself at the expense of native Americans, is one way to interpret what happened.

Seinfeld himself has conceded that the episode didn't age well, so whether or not you agree with parent poster, it's not like he's really being so "odd" and out-there in his reasoning.

(https://www.huffpost.com/entry/seinfeld-offensive_n_59d8d036...)

[drstewart]

Wow.

I really can't wait until we move past the current cultural zeitgeist. It's insufferable.

[DharmaPolice]

> the show still ends up making fun of native Americans.

I disagree that it does.

Also in the link you've provided Seinfeld only says "You could never do that today". You've interpreted that as him conceding that the episode didn't age well. That's a stretch. (To be fair, the title of the article suggests he's admitting it's offensive but there doesn't seem to be anything to back that up).

[JohnWhigham]

This is what happens when large portions of a demographic are terminally online and their only hobby is doomscrolling on Twitter looking for something to get outraged about.