[EdwardDiego]

> how many lines of code was [Zope] before then?

Soooo many. Zope was a very formidable code base to delve into. I was trying to learn it because my company was using Plone, and Zope quickly surfaced through the abstractions.

Zope's codebase might have been more accessible if type annotations were a thing back then. Their implementation of "interfaces" for Python were very interesting back in the Python 2.3 days.

I disagree that Python is a "toy" language now. It started out as one, and has been stumbling awkwardly away from that ever since the mid 2000s - virtualenvs, pip, pyenv, pipenv/poetry, type annotations, mypy etc.

In my entirely unscientific opinion, I think it was Django that started this journey, then of course scikit, numpy leading into pandas etc.

[xapata]

Both NumPy and Django were created in 2005, but Numeric, the ancestor of NumPy, is nearly as old as Python itself, and predates SciPy.