[WorldMaker]

There's also nothing wrong with leaving "savepoints" type commits in a branch. Sometimes "I stopped here and took a break" is still useful information to have later on.

Git provides a DAG and you can use a --no-ff merge to build your "version commit" from the sub history of its "savepoints". You can follow one parent of the merge to the next "version commit" or you can follow the other parent through the intermediate "savepoints" that built it step by step.

You can use --first-parent today for most git operations to get "clean views" no matter how complex the DAG web is beyond it. I think a lot of these debates would "go away" if more people and user interfaces defaulted to --first-parent and "drill down" navigation rather than firehose of the complete graph and confusing (but pretty) "subway diagrams".

[globular-toast]

> There's also nothing wrong with leaving "savepoints" type commits in a branch. Sometimes "I stopped here and took a break" is still useful information to have later on.

I don't think they should be on an eternal branch. I seriously doubt it is ever useful to know that some developer took a break at 11:21 three months ago. This is just noise and makes bisecting impossible, which is the entire point of keeping any history.

> Git provides a DAG and you can use a --no-ff merge to build your "version commit" from the sub history of its "savepoints". You can follow one parent of the merge to the next "version commit" or you can follow the other parent through the intermediate "savepoints" that built it step by step.

You could, but it's thoroughly nonstandard and requires knowledge and careful use of tools to filter out all the noise. Be nice and filter out the noise in a rebase.

> You can use --first-parent today for most git operations to get "clean views" no matter how complex the DAG web is beyond it. I think a lot of these debates would "go away" if more people and user interfaces defaulted to --first-parent and "drill down" navigation rather than firehose of the complete graph and confusing (but pretty) "subway diagrams".

Maybe, but this goes down the route of a blessed workflow. It would require all the tooling to agree on the workflow as important information could easily (even maliciously) be hidden if the workflow wasn't followed. It reminds me of the joke about emacs: an OS that lacks a good editor. Git is the SCM that lacks a good version control system.

[WorldMaker]

> I don't think they should be on an eternal branch. I seriously doubt it is ever useful to know that some developer took a break at 11:21 three months ago. This is just noise and makes bisecting impossible, which is the entire point of keeping any history.

As someone who has had to do deep code archeology, "this was finished before coffee kicked in and is suspect" or "this was written before lunch and the coder may have been hangry" can be really interesting information to have.

git bisect supports --first-parent and bisecting a noisy history is not just possible, but often faster with --first-parent. When you find the merge commit that introduced the regression you branch that commit and run git bisect --first-parent in that branch for additional drilldown into which "sub-commit" of the merge introduced the problem. (And you can do that into additional layers if you've got deep merge commits.)

> You could, but it's thoroughly nonstandard and requires knowledge and careful use of tools to filter out all the noise.

It doesn't require that much "care" to use --first-parent as a default in your git commands. You can even set it as a default in you git config for relevant commands (like git log, git praise, git bisect), or just add simple aliases for them. Pretty standard, and not that much knowledge, and you can pass it around with a couple quick git config commands. Assuming of course remembering the pretty much only one option --first-parent is too hard.

Also, I don't know what "care" has to do with it: forget to do it and you see a lot of "noise". Noise isn't dangerous. Annoying maybe, but it's definitely not dangerous to see extra noise when you wanted a cleaner view.

Outside of the command line, sure there aren't a lot of great UI tools that take a --first-parent centric approach to git. But it doesn't need all of them to "agree" (because again, if a tool shows you too much noise, that's not dangerous, that's just annoying), just one good --first-parent based drilldown UI would do a lot to make people more comfortable with thinking about the git log in two dimensions instead of trying so much to squeeze git into the one dimension of CVS or SVN. I think it's mostly a matter of aesthetics and what "sells": the subway diagrams of the DAG look pretty in screenshots but rarely are a great user experience in practice. (So much so that everyone keeps wanting to smash git into a single dimension of code history because they find it too "noisy".) Rather than "declutter" with rebases, a --first-parent / drill-down-oriented UX would do wonders for the git ecosystem, especially for Junior Developers uncomfortable at the command line, that likely shouldn't be trusted with rebases, and would have a much better time all around if told them "don't sweat your individual commits, they'll roll up into a cleaner merge commit at PR time".

[globular-toast]

Care has to be taken that the trunk branch actually is the first parent in each merge commit. Maybe it's unlikely to go wrong in practice, but it's certainly possible to have a merge where the parents are the "wrong way around" thus messing up your first parent strategy.

Also, "git praise"? Is that really a thing now? Talk about not understanding programmer humour.

[WorldMaker]

In most cases where people are using a PR system as the primary integration point, I've not seen a single PR system that has a problem with sometimes getting the parents in merges backwards. The only time I've seen that is junior developers making merges they shouldn't have been (and are the same developers I would never trust with rebase, even just in their own branches) and there is a way to rebase merge parents if you really want to pull out your rebase fu for something.

> Also, "git praise"? Is that really a thing now? Talk about not understanding programmer humour.

git praise has been a standard git alias for git blame for several years now. I'd prefer if git had followed most other VCSes and named it git annotate rather than making it a micro-aggression out of the box, but yeah one person's micro-aggression that makes a papercut in daily workflows is another person's punch down "humour", I guess. I'm glad you seem to enjoy it, I don't appreciate it.