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by syspec 1686 days ago
I encounter random CSS bugs all the time in Chrome, it's just trendy to say Safari is behind the times.

Google wants everything to be done in the browser, their browser, so they can track everything without cookies to sell ads

5 comments

It's really not just "trendy". Safari is the bane of my existence. On Big Sur, our WebGL app was occassionally sporadically rendering floating objects and black primitives into infinity on our CEOs laptop.

On the plus side, our competitor's product didn't work at all. So I guess it's not all bad.

In this case, Catalina had worked fine, and upgrading to Monterey fixed the issue. So props to Apple for fixing the problem. However, at the same time, our app worked flawlessly in both Firefox and Chrome running on the same hardware. Granted, it's not as simple as pointing the finger at Safari. The issue was a combination of Safari's behaviour paired with less than perfect graphics drivers.

Although, this is just one example. Mobile Safari not supporting full screen APIs on iPhone, but supporting them on iPad is just, well, weird. Is that a conscious effort to cripple the web on iPhone, or could they just not figure out the UX?

I actually like that they do this and let me use the UI I know and that will definitely work. 99% your video playback UX is not as good and you mostly want to take over full-screen so you can prevent the user from doing things (you may fall in the 1%, but I’m generalizing so apologies if you’re one of the few exceptions). It’s annoying on the iPad when sites build half-cocked full-screen UIs with buggy custom controls.
As mentioned, our app is WebGL i.e. interactive real-time rendering, not at all video playback.

That said, I agree with you on custom video UIs being horrid.

Oh neat, and sorry for missing that. I can totally see why you might have valid reasons for that.
I guarantee it's not the latter given Apple's almost infinite resources.
There's nothing wrong with the browser being the next generation cross-platform execution environment. All the older options for this (Java, Flash etc.) sucked...

I would like to see a strong competitor to Chrome someday though... - Firefox still has weird issues occasionally (most recently scroll position randomly jumping sometimes). I still keep it around though because its sane when it comes to standards and will remain sane even if things like HW acceleration are not available. - Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform (might as well be IE6) - Chromium and derivatives aren't distinct enough from Chrome and a lot of the new ones have weird cryptocurrency integrations that just don't feel right. - Is Opera still alive?

> Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform (might as well be IE6)

It's a bit funny, and a bit sad, that this wasn't always so; I rather liked the Windows version of Safari, and IE for UNIX was apparently pretty good.

Yeah.

I don't miss doing web dev in the Win XP days when one had to test everything on IE, Chrome, Safari, Opera, Firefox, etc. but at least there were options back then and things legit ran with different HTML and JS engines.

Now it's just Chrome/Chromium and Firefox representing cross-platform browsers, and most other things are platform specific WebKit mods or Chromium reskins...

> Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform

At the moment. Apple has a fairly long history of keeping cross-platform ports alive even if they aren't publicly available (that's why the transitions from 68K->PowerPC->Intel->Apple Silicon have been relatively smooth).

I would bet that Apple could roll out a cross-platform Safari in fairly short order, should the powers that be decide that it makes business sense.

But they have not, so "Apple has a fairly long history of keeping cross-platform ports alive even if they aren't publicly available" means a load of nothing at the moment.

I get that Apple are not trying to make a Chrome/Chromium competitor because it is not worth it for them and in that they have succeeded --- Safari is indeed not a competitor to Chrome/Chromium... So... good job?

I doubt there's any Windows version developed at Apple even in secrecy; they definitely abandon that operating system and decided focusing on their own macOS and features it comes with and their cloud services is the only way. While they do support iCloud on Windows to some extent, there's no support on Linux nor under Android. At least no official one that's done in super-easy way.
> Apple has a fairly long history of keeping cross-platform ports alive even if they aren't publicly available (that's why the transitions from 68K->PowerPC->Intel->Apple Silicon have been relatively smooth)

I don’t fully follow that logic. There never was a cross-platform Mac OS until PowerPC. The 68k to PowerPC transition had the first PowerPC version running most of the OS in emulation, and an incredible hack (in the good sense) to allow 68k code call PowerPC code and vice versa for all the different calling conventions that the 68k version of the OS used.

I think the later transitions only worked because they had moved to the Unix-based Mac OS X before that, ditching lots of assembly code. It’s Unix that’s portable.

For both PowerPC to Intel and Intel to Apple Silicon I guess it also helped that they already had code for lots of time-critical parts of the OS. For the first, they had Intel code in QuickTime for Windows, for the second, ARM code in iOS.

Except when it's Chrome, it's probably a feature and not a bug. Remember that Google effectively controls the web "standards".
I want everything in the browser too - except the ads.

And FF isn't keeping up :( WebUSB for example.

WebUSB is insane security-wise.

About the only worse thing would be a WebPCIe.

Don't give them ideas. Also, with Thunderbolt, USB is pretty much just a transport for PCI-e.

Edit, here's how Google justifies the existence of WebUSB (https://web.dev/usb/):

"""

Let's see the behavior you could expect with the WebUSB API:

1. Buy a USB device.

2. Plug it into your computer. A notification appears right away, with the right website to go to for this device.

3. Click the notification. The website is there and ready to use!

4. Click to connect and a USB device chooser shows up in Chrome where you can pick your device.

"""

The goal is to make Chrome the OS. As long as your USB device works on Chrome, who cares about it working on the rest of the system. Absolute madness.

I mean isn't it a lot more manageable than things like PCIe that support DMA.

Given the seemingly extensive support for doing emulated USB passthrough/redirection to VMs, I'm assuming people have looked into the security implications to the host.

Be careful what you wish for, USB4 supports PCIe tunneling. Looks like we're just a slippery slope away.
Oh yes it's trendy to criticize Apple but it's not trendy to criticize Google.

Honestly I don't know the reality some HN commenters live in.