[jimnotgym]

Perhaps we have it backwards. I'm in the UK. If I saw a company that did 'engineering' I would expect to walk in and see someone at a lathe. I work in the West Midlands a lot and this is especially true.

An engineer may drive a train or maintain ships propulsion in the English speaking world.

A Civil Engineering company builds roads and bridges, and may not have any Chartered Engineers on the staff.

I know several people who design electronics for a living, have degrees in the same subject and call themselves 'Electronic Engineer', yet becoming CEng would never cross their mind. Whereas if you wanted to become a structural engineer you would likely have to become chartered.

I have never met a Chartered network engineer, yet what else would a CCNA call themselves?

Never mind the software engineers and Devops engineers...

Perhaps the Chartered Engineers should have found their own term rather than adopt a general one and then get sniffy about other uses? I know the Chartered Institutes have been around a long time but the term 'Engineer' predates them by some years.

[OJFord]

Yeah, maybe. But that's what I mean about 'barely even a trade' - takes a lot more know-how to operate a lathe (per your example) than to do a lot of the 'handyman' type jobs that we get told 'an engineer' will be sent out for.

Fwiw I'm not CEng, EE by degree, but work in SE. I'd like the IET & chartership to be more relevant for SE, but all I meant by that was that we have it, but don't (as some other countries do) require it or something like it in order to use the term 'engineer'.

[OJFord]

I was reminded on the tube this morning that this same sort of thing gives us TfL's 'Network Presentation Team' - née 'cleaners'.