[poorjohnmacafee]

Really dislike this whole "East" vs "West", but fwiw Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, India, etc. are often already lumped in with the "West", in terms of sharing "Western" values of democracy and human rights, and having achieved first world economies through "Western" capitalism. "West" doesn't even make sense when it's basically what all the first world countries are regardless of geography.

[sudosysgen]

Oh come on. India's prime minister has organized race riots that killed thousands. Japan has had the same party in power nationally for 50 years, and the selection of the leadership of the LDP is more important than any election. Literally no South Korean president has ever finished their tenure, they all resigned at some point or another in massive scandals.

None of them share Western values of democracy and human rights. They're all barely democracies. Japan and SK are economically integrated with the West, that's all. If you mean first world country say first world country, that entire liberal values shtick is just ridiculous.

[stjohnswarts]

I've been to S. Korea and Japan multiple times. They have a lot more in common with us on ideas of free speech and free press, etc. China has none of that. The state controls everything. They are currently covering up top official's alleged rap of a famous tennis player. Squashing any story of it in the news and on the internet, that doesn't happen in Japan, Korea, or Taiwan. It would be headline news in all of them.

[sudosysgen]

Really? You think that covering up rapes by officials doesn't happen in South Korea and Japan? Really?

Japan has state indoctrination. Openly historically revisionist units have the power to cover up and lie about history.

I assure you that such news is being squashed in SK and Japan, often and successfully. There are countless examples you can find. It wouldn't be headline news in all but a few smaller publications unless the government and it's allies were okay with it.

Is it as bad as China? No. Is it better than average? Also no. Freedom of speech is okay though in both.

India is especially egregious. There is little free speech, political freedoms, or freedom of the press. Various minority parties have their members killed, and their buildings burnt every so often.

I don't know enough about Taiwan to say anything, though.

[s1artibartfast]

>Is it as bad as China? No. Is it better than average? Also no.

What are you looking at for your average? I would say that the global average is pretty low when you consider each country, and Japan and SK is in the upper half. You have to take into account dysfunctional and repressive kleptocracies in the Middle East, Africa, and South America

[sudosysgen]

Many dysfunctional and repressive kleptocracies fail in the exact same way as SK and Japan, ie, massive corruption and power concentration.

There are not many countries in the world that are so dysfunctional as far as democracy that the same party can stay in power for 50 years, nor that literally no single president has managed not to resign. If SK and Japan were in Africa, the Middle East, or South America and had economic outcomes commensurate with the region but on the higher end, we would call them dysfunctional and repressive kelptocracies.

Like come on, if you saw a country in Africa where the same party was in power for a lifetime and the conviction rates exceed 99%, where judges would rather resign than declare someone not guilty, and where a an extremist political faction infiltrated the educational bureaucracy and textbook publishers to prevent historical event from being taught, you would call it a dysfunctional and repressive kleptocracy. The only reason that's not extended to Japan and SK is by comparison with China and because they are our allies.

[davidjytang]

Was waiting for you to something about Taiwan.