[bkhughes]

> If you need to design the product before you can estimate it, you propose a design project. You should propose to produce a design deliverable; you can offer your client a price break to skip that deliverable and plow ahead into implementation.

I guess this is ultimately what we did (had they turned us down on the main project, they would have walked away with the design spec). That's the standard policy now.

[tptacek]

Yeah; I think I sounded pretty pedantic back there, so let me just say I don't think you're suggesting anything wrong. I'm just saying, I've seen fledgling consultants accidentally let themselves be perceived as billing for the proposal work, and I'm pretty sure that's a big mistake, worth calling out.