[_delirium]

The fact that only 42% are now self-managed (54% managed by paid professionals) leads me to believe that the trend is still against the kind of small-time recent immigrant landlords that the post I was replying to claimed to be the typical landlord. I agree some of the LLCs are investment vehicles for individuals, who buy a property, wrap it in an LLC, and pay a management company to rent it out, but that's a bit different (these are just passive investors buying into an asset class managed by professionals). It'd be interesting to know what percentage though. By number of units (vs. number of LLCs) my bet would still be towards most being larger-scale operations.

In fact, as of the time of that report, one of the largest real estate investors in the US, Blackstone Group, was organized as an LP and went in that category (they changed forms to a Corporation in 2019). A few large real-estate investors still organized in the LLC/LP/LLP form are the BH Companies, UBS Realty Investors, Harbor Group International, AEW Capital Management, and Invitation Homes.

[loeg]

> I agree some of the LLCs are investment vehicles for individuals, who buy a property, wrap it in an LLC, and pay a management company to rent it out, but that's a bit different (these are just passive investors buying into an asset class managed by professionals).

No, creating an LLC for your RE business does not require the use of a management service. The exact same individual landlords can own properties through LLC as without; the LLC just grants them some liability protection.

[_delirium]

It doesn't require it, no. Nonetheless, the majority of properties are professionally managed, so it is simply false that most landlords are small-time individual owners doing it themselves. If everything under "individual" and "LLC/LC/LP" ownership were small-time individuals doing it themselves as a family business, we'd expect to see closer to 78% of properties be self-managed, not 42%.

The rate of increase of professional management is also pretty high: the 2015 survey had 43% of properties professionally managed, which had risen to 54% by 2018. I'd be willing to bet it's more like 60%+ now as there's been quite a bit of buying into the rental market by large investors.

[nsxwolf]

A lot of small-time individual owners with single properties pay a management company a monthly fee to handle leases, maintenance calls, stuff like that. It saves a lot of headaches. Is that what you're considering "professionally managed"?

[hash872]

>I agree some of the LLCs are investment vehicles for individuals, who buy a property, wrap it in an LLC, and pay a management company to rent it out, but that's a bit different (these are just passive investors buying into an asset class managed by professionals)

None of this is correct. An LLC is just a legal structure you create for a few hundred bucks using a two page document online. They're not 'passive investors buying into an asset class'.... you can still be a mom & pop with an LLC. I'm sure most tiny retail businesses are an LLC too.

I didn't personally see the statistics about professional 'management' on the page that you linked, but that doesn't make one a large-scale investor either. Property management companies usually collect 5-10% of the monthly rent, which is a tiny amount of money, so they're incredibly small scale or shady fly-by-night operations. I suspect you saw a statistic that includes the guy that mows the grass and patches the roof, and thought that was 'professional management'.

I think a better/more focused stat would be to understand how many properties or units each investor owns, rather than continuing to misread this table about an industry you're not familiar with. If you own 1-2 small buildings, you meet my personal definition of 'mom & pop operation'

[truffdog]

I suspect many immigrant landlords are renting to people from the same background, doing zero paperwork, and responding to no surveys.