[conjectures]

> in most EU you can do your PhD while working.

You really can't at good universities in the UK. At Cambridge we had to get special permission to live more than 10 miles from Great St Mary's. My advisor's advice was that it was near impossible to finish up while working.

Had enough of Americans telling me about their excruciatingly long PhD programmes when half of that time is spent teaching and doing exams which we'd probably call an MSc. Or half of a post-doc position.

3-4 years is a great length of time for a contract where you're subject to such a power imbalance.

[dm319]

Yes, I have recently completed a PhD at a UK university (aged late 30s). I was able to get full funding for my salary and lab resources for 3 years. I worked so hard and submitted after 4 years. Can't imagine how I could have done those three years while working - it was a very much full-time occupation, if not more.

[geebee]

Fascinating. Was there a lot of coursework, or was this dissertation-based?

The reason I say fascinating is that people do part-time law degrees (25-30 hours a week estimated commitment) while working at times demanding jobs. However, I am very willing to belive that law school is a lot more straightforward than a PhD (attrition rates in elite law schools are below 1%, as opposed to 35%-50% for elite PhD programs).

[dm319]

There wasn't any coursework - just a single thesis at the end. I think some people do achieve a PhD alongside work, but it can be a long process. I also think things have changed these days in that decades ago you could take as long as you liked, whereas now they're very strict about you handing it in completed in 4 years after registration. It maybe that you can register part-time and the deadline is subsequently pushed back, but I imagine it can be a bit risky as departments change and supervisors will come and go if you're taking more than 5 years to do it. The other aspect is what type of PhD it is. For laboratory work it can be hard to fit that around work, especially if you're receiving samples on another timetable.

[Apofis]

The funding that you were granted covered your full traditional salary and not a shoe-string budget? I really want to do graduate studies full time but I'm struggling to figure it out financially.

[dm319]

Yes it covered my clinical salary and had around 20'000 per year for the lab work. It was very generous, but hard to get. Also, the year after I got it, the recession had truly hit and charities and research organisations stopped most of their funding.

It was hard applying for the grants, but it is possible in your spare time. You can talk to potential supervisors and they can point you towards grants coming up - and help you write them.

[tombert]

A few decent universities in the UK appear to be somewhat amenable to the idea of part-time distance learning for a PhD. I don't think University of York is considered a bad school by any measure, and it has a program for such things.

https://www.york.ac.uk/distance-learning/courses/#computer-s...

[nickd2001]

I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this Q. Back in the day, UK universities, and in particular Open University, often let you take as long as you liked to finish a Phd. I knew someone who in the 1980s got a lecturer job at Cambridge Uni with only a Masters, and over a period of 16 yrs got a Phd part-time. But it seems this got clamped down, and now unis don't like to see anyone take longer than 6 yrs to complete a Phd, thus restricting opportunities for those working full-time / raising families at the same time. Does anyone know of some exception to this? I quite fancy doing a Phd myself one day, but I assume I'd have to do it in "stealth mode" unofficially for a few yrs without a supervisor first, getting quite far down the line then approaching a supervisor when it seemed like could complete it within 6 yrs, and that whole approach seems potentially to have pit-falls

[sungam]

Brian May started a PhD in astrophysics at Imperial college in the 70s and dropped out when Queen took off. He then re-registered in 2006 and completed so it was clearly possible at that time.

[wumpus]

I'm a long-haired musician PhD-dropout, and his story is a great inspiration.

Even though he has nicer hair and is a much better musician.

[geebee]

Interesting story about the lecturer. The RAND institute proposed an alternative approach to PhDs modeled more on professional degrees. Law professors, for instance, typical complete law degrees in a very predicable 3 years and build their publications on the job as well paid professors.

This suggestion in the RAND paper was part of an article concluding that there is no shortage of interest in STEM PhDs, and that the aversion US citizens have to these PhD programs is rational and market based when compared to outcomes from professional degrees with (comparably) short, predictable completion times and vastly lower attrition rates.

In other words, if there really were a shortage of PhD STEM students, the career path you described would be plentiful and typical (well, not the 16 year part, but the model of getting good, stable, paid employment after a shorter and more easily completed degree, followed by a process of building publications in that role).

For now, unfortunately, the main lesson is to just say no to PhDs, unless you have a very very strong personal interest in completing one.

[conjectures]

> I quite fancy doing a Phd myself one day, but I assume I'd have to do it in "stealth mode" unofficially for a few yrs without a supervisor first

I'd suggest you think very carefully about this first. There's a very high chance the stealth mode work will be non-useful for getting onto a programme. Similar to how working on a 'build it and they will come' approach is generally disadvised for startups. Obviously it depends on how much of a lone genius you are but only you know that ;)

[nickd2001]

Thank you for friendly helpful advice :) Yeah I've misgivings too. Ha ha I've no idea whether I'm a lone genius or not. I've a hunch for an approach to an area of study which I believe other people have steadfastly ignored or not noticed. Now either (a) they're all informed and I'm not, and they're right not to waste time on such a fruitless approach or (b) I'm on to something worth pursuing. Only one way to find that out. ;) My plan was to try to produce something then demo that to a potential supervisor. There's a couple of professors from when I did my MSc, one in particular is a very nice person who'd probably be interested and at least give it a (healthily critical) hearing. Well, good people of HN you're welcome to reply and shoot down this approach or encourage it, whichever makes most sense. :)

[oytis]

Well, UK is not EU anymore.

[conjectures]

Ba-dum tish!