[crishoj]

Tesla will be charging other EVs around €0.60 per kWh, or €0.24 per kWh with a €13 per month subscription.

This is only slightly higher than what Tesla owners are charged, arguably to cover the additional overhead.

Also, it's competitive: The comparative fast-charger network Ionity charges €0.79 per kWh, or €0.35 kWh with a €17.99 subscription.

[toyg]

These subscriptions have to die, if we want to really replace ICEs. It would be nice if companies did it on their own, because otherwise we'll see the EU Commission step in yet again - and it will.

[afarrell]

Why do the subscriptions have to die? Companies have monthly recurring payroll costs—it makes sense to have monthly recurring revenue too.

Also, it makes monthly budgeting easier for individuals.

[_puk]

It sounds similar to the current "standing charge" you get on UK household energy bills (don't know about the rest of Europe).

Even if you don't use any electricity you still pay a day rate (on most tariffs).

What I'd hate to see long term is if the subscription remains tied to a single supplier (i.e. I pay my subscription to Tesla, but use Ionic to charge, so pay the subscription charge and the higher rate). That will mean the decision to use a different charge point still has repercussions, and prevents the openness of the infrastructure we (society at large if we're moving full electric) really need.

[toyg]

> It sounds similar to the current "standing charge"

One of the great things mobile phones did for society was the PAYG model. It lowered costs for consumers and allowed to onboard even people with atypical cashflows, who might have otherwise struggled to afford monthly contracts. It was a great democratization of access, and that should be the model to pay for services.

Sadly, companies of all size prefer monthly "standing charges" because they make it much easier to fleece consumers by making them pay even if they don't use the service - and if you miss a payment, they can add further charges on top, increasing the abuse. Even mobile companies now make it harder and harder to get true no-strings PAYG accounts.

[ThunderSizzle]

What gas station requires a subscription to buy aside from Costco or Sam's club?

Until these EVs can match the convenience of gas, there isn't a point to get one. Especially since batteries are a huge tax on resources as it is.

[hef19898]

Because it makes EVs a closed system of kinds. Compared to ICEs, where I can get fuel at any station just using my credit or debit card, no subscription needed. All there exists, where I live at least, are bonus programs and cooperations that give you some price reductions. Subscriptions like those for EV charging a only there to create a kind of lock in, a lock in that has the potential to slow down EV sales.

[toyg]

Does Shell charge for a subscription to get some fuel at their stations...? Don't they have fixed costs too? And let's not make up excuses that patronize consumers; they can budget fine for fuel, they will do the same for electricity.

The more we stop this parasitical "subscription for everything" model, the better.

[olex]

Actually yes, Shell offers a subscription model that gets you a discount on fuel prices (you get the "premium" V-Power at the cost of "standard" Super fuel), at least in Germany - it's called the "V-Power Smart Deal".

[toyg]

And it's entirely optional. Which is how it should be.

So no, they don't require a subscription to fuel up. It's just a loyalty scheme.

[reissbaker]

...Okay, and the same is true of Tesla. You don't need a monthly subscription, you can pay as you go; the optional subscription gives you discounted pricing. It's just a loyalty scheme.

[Nextgrid]

Gas stations (which are way more complex & expensive to operate than unattended electric charging points) manage just fine without subscriptions though.

[londons_explore]

Because it severely reduces the quality of service received by the user.

If I have a subscription to Walmart which gives me half price food in return for $50/month, you can bet I'll always be shopping there.

That means I'll usually drive further for food, have less selection, and will be far less likely to switch to another grocery store.

When many stores have a subscription model, they can start to creep prices up for non-subscribers, and before long grocery shopping starts to look like cable internet or phone plans.

I can't 'just switch to AT&T for a few minutes to see if it's faster'!

Endgame:. "36 month Walmart Grocery Plus for $50/month. Early termination charge: $1800. For just $25/month extra, you can also shop at other Walmart locations."

[schmorptron]

Just like the Amazon Prime strategy then

[toyg]

Yep, and Amazon are not good guys.

[thow-58d4e8b]

It creates captive audience, which is a gateway to further anti-competitive and abusive market practices

[capableweb]

Most utilities and physical retail doesn't have monthly recurring revenue, it's all driven by demand. Yes, some of them have additional plans/subscriptions you can get involved in, but most of their revenue comes from one-off payments and they seem to do just fine, what about Tesla makes them special?

[LinuxBender]

Not speaking for others but my personal goal is to only use cash 90% of the time, maybe more. I am not quite there yet but I want to delete all my dependencies on banks and online systems. I am currently still depending on Amazon for some items and that is what is mostly holding me back. I will hold onto my ICE vehicle as long as I can or until cash slots on charging terminals has been sorted as well as entirely offline EV's exist. Cash works fine at the car wash.

[nurbel]

I'm curious: What do you get on Amazon that you can't get an equivalent for in a physical store?

[LinuxBender]

Note: I live in the outskirts of a tiny town. I am intentionally in the middle of nowhere.

- Beds and bed frames. Locally beds are marked up 1000%+ over the same bed I can get online. There is only one store.

- Protein drinks. I can buy out the local stores monthly/quarterly stock in one day. They are currently having issues getting my drinks. There is only one grocery store and people come from a neighboring state to shop there.

- Shelves. In fairness the local hardware store does have some shelves. I wanted steel shelves that can hold a lot of weight. They have the RubberMade shelves that don't meet my needs. I could weld some myself but the cost of steel is really high right now.

- Amino acids, Enzymes, High Quality Vitamins, Mastic Gum, Berberine, Garlic Extract, misc other molecules. The vitamins sold in grocery stores are not only low quality, but actually a cancer risk with vitamin E being the prime example. Males should never take alpha-tocopherol without a balance of gamma-tocopherol and selenium less risking prostate cancer. There are a myriad of other examples in this area. Convincing grocery store chains to carry the higher quality molecules is a herculean effort. When the cost of wood and steel come down I will be building a double-insulated geo-thermal greenhouse and will start producing some of my own molecules, but not all of them.

- Inverters, charge controllers.

- Medical supplies. I am trained as a first responder and have to be ready for family and neighbor emergencies. The local store only has what one would find in a grocery store.

- Radio equipment. CB HP/FRS, scanners, HAM, etc...

- Computer equipment. This is a no-win for me. Not only are there no local stores for this but Amazon has burnt me multiple times. Buying computer equipment on Amazon is a huge gamble.

I could continue listing things for a long time but it's easier to list what I could get locally.

[petra]

Nicely done. Subscription pricing a commodity. That's a nice way to lock users.

[tpmx]

https://tm3een.home.blog/2021/06/06/kwh-prices-at-european-t... claims the price for Tesla owners is €0.25 per kWh in NL.

Ionity is an outlier with its extreme pricing.